Motorcycle plastics ?

Anything goes in the world of fiberglass and plastic

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:41 pm
Tri955i wrote:Phew!......okay I have kind'a repeat what I think I have learned,for you guys this is easy stuff, I'm a newbie.So here goes....
A quick re-sand with 400/600 grit ( wet-dry ? ) would be better
clean with rubbing alcohol and tack cloths
Definitly primer....same brand as paint is best
Do not need to sand between primer and painting unless i get runs in primer
Best to find paint with built in flex agent

Do I to spray clear coat to get the shine? how long after painting do I do this?
Do I spray really thin multiple coats of primer and paint ?

I really am appreciating the help



I'll try to help while timbo is out.
I'll adress your questions in order you have them

1.resand with 400 wet.
2. before sparying any primer use a rubbing alcohol or a product specifically for it called a "surface prep". you can get in an aerosol too so you don't have to use a rag. it's basically a degreaser and wax/silicone remover. ask your paint shop for it. they'll know exactly what to give you.
followed by a tack cloth and it's also a good idea to use your air hose and spray it as you wipe the parts down with the tack cloth.
3. use a primer that is compatible with the paint system you buy. again, your paint store will give you the correct stuff.
4. sand the primer like you did the old paint. it's always the best way.
5. the paint itself will not have any flex agents in it. you'd have to purchase it seperate and add it at the time you are mixing it with reducer.
6. clear coat is the shine in a 2 part paint system the base coat is the color the clear is the shine and the protectant.
7. ask the paint store for the paint info sheets (or TDS, technical data sheet). or download them from the paint company's website. say you choose to use ppg's omni line of paints, go to ppg's site, find the omni line, click on the basecoats for example, and choose the tds for the line of omni you bought. for example their MBC line, https://buyat.ppg.com/refinishProductCa ... dcae068cba here it shows you everything you need to know about that paint. how long to wait for flash and before you clear etc.

here is a link to ppg's site. since it can be a pain to actually locate on the web that I've found.
https://buyat.ppg.com/refinishProductCatalog/



8. spraying is going to be mostly user specific. some guys can lay on a nice hiding coat the first time on the part. some like to hit it lightly each time to avoid runs or fisheyes, solvent popping etc. (solvent popping is tiny bubbles in the paint think of it like a glass of pop, that's what it will do though not that extreme but you get the idea)
Last edited by serpentracer on Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:02 pm
Tri955i wrote:Hi Timbo.......can I pick your brain a bit more.? I am trying to take this in as best as I can , it's a little over-whelming, but, kind of exciting as well.

When you talk about "flashing",I assume you are talking about drying of the primer/promoter /paint which ever I am spraying at the time.Now is flashing allowing something to dry until just tacky or is it a definitive amount of time.?

Are the steps below close?

1)-I "DO" have filler on cracks and area's where some light body work was required.Therefore....I must first apply a coat of epoxy sealer over entire fairing.?
2)-Allow epoxy to flash.....how long ?
3)-Apply urathene primer and allow to flash dry overnite if possible.Can I let it dry for a week or is that too long for primer to dry.
4)-Wet sand with 600 grit. Just tack cloth it clean and dry right away after sanding?
5)-I'm going to spray final color as gloss black.Should I be able to buy the same color epoxy as the primer....if so what colors of primer and epoxy will be best if final color is going to be gloss black?

I'm confused at this part here......
[ I put base on thin medium wet. I spray 2-3 coats clear wet the way i want it to look when dry. Let the base dry for 30 min to 1 hour before clearing. The clear should dry for 10-15 minutes per coat minimum. ]



1. flash time is the time it takes between coats for the paint to have dried to the touch. every coat you do must be allowed to flash. what flashing basically is, is when the liquid solvents in the paint have evaporated.
2. no need to put any special kind of primers such as epoxy over abs plastic or fiberglass. just your standard 2k urathane is fine. and do NOT put primer over something you need to use body filler. body filler has to go on the bare plastics and metals. so you'll need to scuff the paint in any area that needs body filler down to the bare plastic with 60 or 80 grit. leave it nice and rough then put the body filler on. then work on sanding it out with 80-120 grit. once you feel you got it sanded just right and flat etc, spray it with primer. which will reveal if you do or not. if not, sand the primer back down and repeat the process with more body filler.
there is no easy way to get around it. it's just the standard process. also any sanding scratches left in the body filler can be filled by the primer. hit with several coats and sand it out with something like 300 to smooth out the primer. and the sanding scratches should disappear.

3. like in my other post about the TDS for the paint, follow them for the primers too. you can techically start spraying your color right away after a little bit of flashing of the primer. but most people wait for it to harden up a few days. you can't wait TOO long for primer. that's only the color you have to clear in a 24hour window. but if you do wait lets say a week, you HAVE to sand it. always remember the paint needs a chemical and a mechanical bond to adhere properly.

4. tack it right before you spray it. a tack cloth is just a cheese cloth with a sticky residue on it to pick up sanding dust etc. again, I like to wipe down with some surface prep cleaner and after it's had ample time to dry, air hose and tack cloth. the cleaner you keep your part the better your results will be.

5. it doesn't matter the color of the primer so long as you use the same color primer on everything. don't use a red on one and a gray on something else. your black color will look slightly different in certain light conditions. pretty much all cars are painted with a gray primer from the factory.

BTW, "gloss" black isn't the correct terms when talking about a basecoat/clear coat paint. the paint will go on and dry dull. the clear is what gives it it's shine or "gloss".
in a single stage paint the paint will dry "glossy". and you just simply buff it to make it even more "glossy"
with a clear coat it's super glossy from the time you spray it till it's hard. of course you can wetsand clearcoat to make it perfectly flawless too.
to do that you'll wetsand it with that 1200 grit you have and buff it out with rubbing compound and a buffer.
Last edited by serpentracer on Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:05 pm
also if you don't have a air dryer or water seperator of any kind. I'd consider buying one before you go spraying your paints.
the stuff isn't cheap and just a little drop of water will ruin everything.
I even use the little plastic ball kind on the end of my gun. for $7 it's worth it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:24 pm
Thats all good . I would not scuff plastic with 60 grit. Thats a little rough. Good advice serp.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:46 am
I thought of something else too. take the time to learn your spray gun and it's settings.
it will save you a possible mess and a lot of lost time/engergy/money.

for my gun I find the recommended spray psi from the gun manufacture is wrong for me. this is why it's important to find yourself a test panel and practice using your gun and fine tuning the adjustments.

when I spary paint with the tip I have a lower air psi is good enough. but with clear since it's so much thicker I have to crank up the air psi to get it to atomize the droplets small enough so it doesn't leave too much orange peel appearance. I tried the factory recommended settings and it just wasn't good enough. I had to increase the psi about 10lbs before it started working right for me.
this will also vary from brand to brand of your paints.
when you get it right it will be more like a heavy fog coming from the gun than a spray of liquid. and then you have to work on keeping the optimal distance from the surface.

it takes a little practice. but doing this will end up saving you from pulling your hair out and ruining your work.



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:53 am
Well...............Timbo , Serpentracer,you guys are amazing. :clap: Gave me lots of good stuff,but sadly to say that I'm 'chickening" out on this one.All the really good tips and the how-to's are not wasted though,I just don't want to loose the time and effort I've got into my bike rebuild so far. Everything from the mechanical to the electrical has been done to the highest standards so far,I think I will let a Professional like you guys do the spraying.
I have printed the entire conversation we have had so as not to loose the info,I have the spray gun,the place, I think I will wait and try my hand at this on something that is not quite as crucial.I have three bikes in the garage,likely will be more in the future.
Thank you again for all the advice,will still post a couple of pic's in here for you guys to view even though I woun't be the painter. :allgood:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:21 pm
Thanks Tri9, You should practice on the other ones. Buy enough base and clear and if you mess up rescuff and go again. It's just paint. A gallon of clear goes a looooong ways on a bike. ;)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:27 am
Hey Guys - Wow - Great information on how to prep and paint for motorcycle plastic. I am a little new at this as well but I am deep into my project and thought I would throw out a few questions of my own since you guys are so knowledgeable. I am working on a 2002 triumph daytona that has been abused all the way around the fairings, front cowl, back fairings and gas tank. I stripped all the plastic off, plastic welded the major cracks, fiberglass the pieces that were missing and now down to filling the highs and lows with plastic filler. Now- there were a few comments that got me a little worried for the next step in my project... which I was heading down to the garage to do tonight....

1. Does the brand of primer matter if the you use the same brand base coat and clear coat? Will I have problems later? (I really don't want to repeat the process with the same bike!)

2. I am using a plastic promoter before I am laying down the primer and I read that it was ok to use that over the filler- Correct?

3. I have a fantastic 33 gallon compressor but I am scared when it comes to painting because I don't want to spend 250 on paint and a base, then 150 on a clear then have to sand and start over. So I was going to just buy the aresol base and clear from Towers paint and hope for the best. Is it worth it for a new person that has never touched a paint gun to try painting a whole motorcycle? The psi configurations on one of the post that mentioned it didn't match with the manufactures guidelines really worries me because I would not know the difference until it was too late. Aresol recommended is ultimately the questions.

4. Back to the primer - so it is ok to prime in advance and leave the pieces sitting for a week but you have to sand it? Are we talking wet sand with 600 or greater? Or sand it rough - 100- 220 dry? Also - would it be recommended to primer, paint, and clear all in one shot? (please tell me know- I just finished primer on 1/2 my pieces :)

5. Back to the painting bit: If one was to buy a gun - do you need 2 guns? 1 for clear - 1 for paint? How much paint would cover say - 1 full motorcycle if the job was done perfect the first time- 1 quart, 1 gallon? How much reducer do you use for the paint and does a clear require a reducer also?

6. Last but not least- how much should one pay for paint... is the story about how much you pay is what you get.. like if you were to buy a good paint - is 125.00 a quart reasonable? Also - the color I am going for is Diablo red which requires a base coat the the color, then the clear.. What principles should I follow for that type of paint system- (ie wet sand after the base coat then apply the color, wet sand again, then apply the clear?

Ok - that is a lot of questions for one post so I will stop here but I would love to hear back from you guys so I am absolutely sure I am doing the right steps for a lasting paint job and not one that will look like &%#$ in a few months.

Cheers!

Lex

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:25 am
Lex, first welcome to the forums here. I'm not a motorcycle guy but can at least comment on a few things here that may help you until one of the other guys jump in....

1.Newbies will probably have it easier to stay in one brand system because any troubleshooting is a lot easier. PPG, Sherwin Williams, Dupont, etc., will get you more help here because they are production systems that guys here use everyday.

2. Not absolutely sure on the promotrer app. here but you can easily check that with your paint jobber when you buy paint.

3. No aerosols! If you only want to do this once and want a quaility coating you are never going to get a proper thickness, durable coating using them. Just a bunch of low solids chemistry and lots of gas. If you are afraid of painting get some practice on misc., parts from a junkyard.

4.Yes, primer can easliy set for a week. Epoxy primers can set for a long time. Hopefully you are not using aerosol primers right now, right???? If so, sand them all back off and get a quality gunned on primer with the paint system you are picking. You would normally sand a primer to 400 for solid colors and 600 for metallics. And, no, I like to let primer set for week or so, then do my base/clear within it's time windows.

5.One gun is fine for the beginner. Paint coverage can range a lot depending on the brand and level of quality within the paint line. Getting with a local paint jobber is best for you as they can give you some advice and you can also get your plan together and then get back on our regular paint forum to fine tune your purchase.

6. You need to do a lot more reading and researching here. Base coat colors are never sanded as clear goes right over them. The clear is what is sanded, leveled, and polished in a base/clear system. Pricing depends a lot on color (yes, red is generally one of the most expensive in any line) and again economy to premium within the paint manufacturing system.

Bottom line, READ, READ, READ, before you jump into this work and continue to ask question over in the main forum. Lot of great guys over there that know this stuff inside/out.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:55 am
this thread needs to be bumped back up. some of this stuff is real good for noobs like me. looking to paint motorcycles after some repairs.
Never painted before.
I'm here to learn and build my supplies.
Will be painting real soon!
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