Hi Guys! first of all thank you all for any help that can be provided! Back in January my car was involved in a car accident and repaired through the insurance company which offered lifetime warranty on everything they fixed. When the car came back, at first glance, it all looked like it was repaired properly, but as I showed to some colleges at work, they would notice things that could have been done better. Very minor details such as one of the intersection between the hood and the bumper being about 1mm farther on the right side than the left... and minor separation of about 5mm between the headlight and the bumper of the side they fixed while the opposite side it touched perfectly.

Anyways, a few month later, I went to the dealership for couple recalls and it happens to be about a block away from the insurance service center, so I stopped by to get it looked at and fixed. They gave me a car rental and couple days later the insurance company called me saying that the shop took the bumper and headlight apart and they found out the car has been in another incident which caused the bumper tabs to break offsetting the bumper from the headlight and also breaking the headlight seal which was causing some condensation. I completely denied because the only driver its me and I have never been in any incidents ever since.... They said I might not even noticed assuming this things happens all the time, it could have been that I hit a snow bank or something like that.... I replied I had no idea and was not aware at all... and I told them that most likely I would have noticed if i hit something underneath enough to cause this amount of damage.

Anyways, the reason why I ask your opinion its because the scratch you will see in the pictures its right in the center of the bumper... and even if what they say is true, that I went over something, and that this kind of things are sometime unnoticeable.... In the law of physics, is it possible that those scratches in the middle , could have broken the holding tabs on the right side of the bumper, separate the hood from the bumper, break some part of the headlight, all which happens to be on the same side of the original accident, and without causing any other damage either on the center or the opposite side of the car??

Please, I will appreciate your comments and suggestions because at this point, they dont want to take responsibility and somehow putting me against the wall by offering me the option to either putting the car back together and dont fix anything or I will have to pay for the inspection plus about $1400 in repairs so far....

Attached please look at the pictures and will appreciate your opinion. And what should I do in this circumstances.

Thank you all so much!

Well, it's another one of those mysteries that fall under "stuff happens" and that is about all we can say from here.... Sure you could have hit something, bumper cover gets scarred up underneath as seen, bumper cover flexs enough to do some internal damage, and the headlight?.... that could have even been a separate event. Heck, you may not know about hitting anything because someone HIT YOU when you weren't even in the car. Problem is, there is just no "proof" of what happened here so you can't attach blame. Attaching blame or responsibility is all about "evidence" and there is nothing to support what did the damage.
We can't really give you much in the way of advice because we know what your damage is but like you, we don't know what caused it.

DarrelK wrote:Well, it's another one of those mysteries that fall under "stuff happens" and that is about all we can say from here.... Sure you could have hit something, bumper cover gets scarred up underneath as seen, bumper cover flexs enough to do some internal damage, and the headlight?.... that could have even been a separate event. Heck, you may not know about hitting anything because someone HIT YOU when you weren't even in the car. Problem is, there is just no "proof" of what happened here so you can't attach blame. Attaching blame or responsibility is all about "evidence" and there is nothing to support what did the damage.
We can't really give you much in the way of advice because we know what your damage is but like you, we don't know what caused it.

Thank you Darrel! your reply is very much appreciated! I cant agree more with most of what you are saying, now, a hit by someone else while I was not in the car is not the case... Not sure if you looked at the photos but the scratch is in the bottom of the bumper but not all the way through... Now, my question is based on the pictures attached of that scratch in specific, the body shop is saying that the scratch in the center is the proof that the car hit something that caused all the problems previously mentioned with intention of not fixing the damage. What is strange, is that the problems are on the same side of the accident and other than the scratch on the center there are no other broken parts or dents either on the center or on the other side, also, If you look at the scratch is like a perfect V shape with a very small curve at the end actually going in the opposite side which makes me believe if this scratch was anyhow related, I believe the scratch most likely would be in direction to the broken parts...

I certainly don't want to throw accusations but it did made me wonder if they really replaced all the parts for new ones when they fixed the car after the accident... So instead of wondering, I decided to ask you guys who are very knowledgable for your opinion.

Thanks again Darrel!


Thanks again!!

Fabio

Fabio,
Yep, I took a good look at your pictures and even filtered them to highlight the damage and.... it just doesn't prove anything either way. They are just gouges on a bumper cover. There's no definitive proof that you did the damage, the original body shop muffed the original repair work, or that the current dealership didn't wack it in the parking lot after you dropped it off.....

The shop most likely screwed up, and what they should have done once they removed the bumper and found the additional damage was to have written a supplement into the insurance quote. This happens all the time, and regardless of if they had some theory that the damage was pre-existing or not, there is no shop I know of that is halfway decent that will not go back and adjust an estimate once they open the car up and discover damage that the initial assessment did not catch, in the location of the accident. I know collision shops that make a career out of this.

So a good question to both the shop and the insurance company is this:

"So you guys took this car in and assessed damage in the location of the accident, and you wrote an estimate. Then you took the car apart to do the repair work and you discovered additional damage. If you didn't see it at that point and now you do see it, then you missed it and now you are telling me it's my liability, which is unacceptable. So let's go with the version where you saw this damage when you started the repair work -- yet you did not go back and write a supplement. Please explain this to me".

This is the only shot you have, IMHO. To try to prove the car was pristine before the accident is going to be impossible, for the reasons Darrel stated.

(EDIT: I just noticed you said you brought the car back "a few months later". While I stick to what I wrote above, given this huge time gap your chances of success here are drastically reduced. If it were a few days or even a week or two later...maybe. Months later...I think you are going to end up chalking this up to a lesson learned)

chris wrote:The shop most likely screwed up, and what they should have done once they removed the bumper and found the additional damage was to have written a supplement into the insurance quote. This happens all the time, and regardless of if they had some theory that the damage was pre-existing or not, there is no shop I know of that is halfway decent that will not go back and adjust an estimate once they open the car up and discover damage that the initial assessment did not catch, in the location of the accident. I know collision shops that make a career out of this.

So a good question to both the shop and the insurance company is this:

"So you guys took this car in and assessed damage in the location of the accident, and you wrote an estimate. Then you took the car apart to do the repair work and you discovered additional damage. If you didn't see it at that point and now you do see it, then you missed it and now you are telling me it's my liability, which is unacceptable. So let's go with the version where you saw this damage when you started the repair work -- yet you did not go back and write a supplement. Please explain this to me".

This is the only shot you have, IMHO. To try to prove the car was pristine before the accident is going to be impossible, for the reasons Darrel stated.

(EDIT: I just noticed you said you brought the car back "a few months later". While I stick to what I wrote above, given this huge time gap your chances of success here are drastically reduced. If it were a few days or even a week or two later...maybe. Months later...I think you are going to end up chalking this up to a lesson learned)

Thanks so much for the reply! I spoke to the insurance guy yesterday and he seems to have some doubts as well on how the scratch in the center could be what caused of all the damage... And trying to get on my side for a minute, his only explanation for what could happen other than what the shop is telling, is that someone in their shop might be corrupted enough to buy the new parts when the original accident happened, then have the insurance company pay for it and last, return or sell the new parts on his own for a small profit and place the broken parts that are unnoticeable from the exterior back into the car without really being noticed... The problem with this theory is that he can not and he will not be throwing accusations... so he is somewhere in the middle without really being able to do much and no matter what anyone says, it is the shop that has the final word if they fill they have any reason at all to avoid fixing the car.

Also, not the insurance company nor anyone he knows can really look at the damage and make sure the shop is telling the truth. Nevertheless, he said he will talk with the shop manager and ask him the question on what makes he think the scratch in the center and the broken parts are related... And based on how good his answer is, we will see how to proceed.... But what you said its true, I wished I had taken the car back as soon as I saw the damage... and I didnt because I felt I had peace of mind by what they called lifetime warranty and the fact that from the outside it all looked like it was very minor that only required some adjustment..... But most likely this will be a lesson learned just as you mention.... not to trust anyone... unfortunately I did trust them at the time....

This time unfortunately and most likely, I can say in advance I got ripped off...

Thanks again! truly appreciated!

DarrelK wrote:Fabio,
Yep, I took a good look at your pictures and even filtered them to highlight the damage and.... it just doesn't prove anything either way. They are just gouges on a bumper cover. There's no definitive proof that you did the damage, the original body shop muffed the original repair work, or that the current dealership didn't wack it in the parking lot after you dropped it off.....

Thanks Darrel! I truly appreciate your response!! and you are right... unfortunately and most likely that is reason enough for them to avoid repairing my car.

In my heart.... I really feel bad about this whole situation, someone really took advantage of me.. and I feel there is really nothing I can do to defend myself. Take care.