Candies for a Rookie

Discuss custom painting, artwork and airbrushing

User avatar

Non-Lurker
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:06 pm

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:04 pm
I am quite the rookie at bodywork and painting and only will be doing hobbyist at home stuff.

I have done a couple of motorcycle tanks and they came out fairly well.

Now I want to experiment with some flakes and candies. I purchased some flakes in three different colors and in two different sizes from “The Custom Shop”. I will be shooting the flakes mixed in with some clear then adding cadies on top of that (I think!)

I am going to either get an old hood or trunk somewhere or use the trunk of my 65 Caddy which is currently Samoan Bronze.

Anyway, my question is where do I get the candies? Seems like the HOK stuff is a little pricey for me to be experimenting with.

I have a Sagola Mini Extreme that I was going to use for the candies.

I have found both Alsa Candy Concentrates and the UreKrem EyeKandy concentrates

Would either one of these be a good way to start?

https://alsacorp.com/candy-concentrates-liquid-additives/

http://shop.thecoatingstore.com/EyeKandy-Copper-Candy-Concentrate-EKK-B07-HP.htm
Sent by the random thoughts from the voices in my head...



Settled In
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:36 am

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:19 am
I use HOK stuff almost exclusively. I'm sure the other products will work fine, but IMHO, it's so much time and work doing the prep, and spending the money on materials, not to buy the best. And by that I mean holding up in the long run. Other products will work out fine, but how do they hold up to abrasion, UV rays, temp changes, etc.
Now, most major suppliers make good products, and will probably be similar in spraying them out. I don't think any will be easier for a beginner to start with, since you've sprayed it before, you know the pitfalls. It is very difficult to do. Gun set up, and spray technique/discipline are the most important things to worry about. Esp for someone moving up from painting bikes. The larger you go, and more shape to panels, the harder it is to shoot candy.

User avatar

No Turning Back
Posts: 824
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:53 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Country:
USA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:47 am
i use radiance, HoK, Cosmichrome, and Spectrachrome

theres not much difference between them, use whats affordable and dont be fooled by the label.
Experienced Trained Certified

SATA Spray Equipment Germany
Axalta ChromaBase Elite Standox Imron 5000 6000
PPG Delfeet Deltron Global Matthews
Sherwin Williams Ultra 7000 Genesis
Valspar DeBeer LIC
Akzo Nobel Sikkens Lesonal

User avatar

Non-Lurker
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:06 pm

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:01 pm
PainterDave wrote:...theres not much difference between them, use whats affordable and dont be fooled by the label.


Thanks for the info. That is good to hear.

I really don't mind paying for quality materials when warranted, but don't really want to pay the extra $$$ if I am going to sand off most of it while learning!!!
Sent by the random thoughts from the voices in my head...

User avatar

Non-Lurker
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:06 pm

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:14 pm
I am going to get a panel to experiment with somewhere.

Then my thinking is;

Day One;
Primer
Tape it off for two different colors of BC: One black the other Silver
Shoot some clear over the BC with the different colors of flake that I have mixed into the CC

Day Two (or the following Saturday);
Scuff with grey pad or 800
Shoot three or four different colors of candy concentrates mixed in intercoat
Cover with clear
Stand back and be amazed

Does this sound right or am I missing something?
Sent by the random thoughts from the voices in my head...

User avatar

No Turning Back
Posts: 824
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:53 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Country:
USA
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:25 pm
sounds great man, have fun
Experienced Trained Certified

SATA Spray Equipment Germany
Axalta ChromaBase Elite Standox Imron 5000 6000
PPG Delfeet Deltron Global Matthews
Sherwin Williams Ultra 7000 Genesis
Valspar DeBeer LIC
Akzo Nobel Sikkens Lesonal



Settled In
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:36 am

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:42 am
The only "iffy" detail I spot is: are you using regular clear, not intercoat, over the base with flake? If so, you might have reactions if you shoot the candy w/intercoat the next day.
Related to this, is what size flake you're using. The larger the flake, the more clear you need to bury it, so here, regular clear is better than intercoat. With HOK intercoat, they don't recommend putting on more that 3 coats, due to weakness of a thicker film.

User avatar

No Turning Back
Posts: 824
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:53 pm
Location: Denver, CO
Country:
USA
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:19 am
chopolds wrote:The only "iffy" detail I spot is: are you using regular clear, not intercoat, over the base with flake? If so, you might have reactions if you shoot the candy w/intercoat the next day.
Related to this, is what size flake you're using. The larger the flake, the more clear you need to bury it, so here, regular clear is better than intercoat. With HOK intercoat, they don't recommend putting on more that 3 coats, due to weakness of a thicker film.


i dont recommend any intercoat from HoK it is complete junk,

DBC500 is what i would recommend for intercoat, but it is too expensive, use cheap clear
Experienced Trained Certified

SATA Spray Equipment Germany
Axalta ChromaBase Elite Standox Imron 5000 6000
PPG Delfeet Deltron Global Matthews
Sherwin Williams Ultra 7000 Genesis
Valspar DeBeer LIC
Akzo Nobel Sikkens Lesonal



Fully Engaged
Posts: 374
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:45 pm

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:38 am
Here is a compilation on what I have learned about flake and candy.

Flake in regular clear is fine, I actually prefer it in regular clear. Depending on the size of the flake you will need 3-5 coats of clear on top of the flake to bury it. The bigger the flake the more clear you need on top. Colored flake will also need more because you deffinitly don't want to sand down into the flake. this will cause the flake to turn silver where you hit it.

Even with 5 coats the surface will probably still be lumpy when cured. If you try doing candy graphics on a lumpy surface you will have problems with the tape lifting, candy bleeding under the tape. You can also get color running away from high spots and pooling in the low spots on horizontal surfaces (like the hood) and causing darker and light spots.

I would suggest you make sure you have enough clear over the flake and plan on blocking it down flat by hand. Depending on how rough it is I might start with 220, 320, 400, and usually end up at 600. 600 is good for adhesion.

Because of all the clear you are using you want to give it time to cure and the solvents to get out between steps. The flake session will be like 3 coats with flake and 3-5 coats to bury. That's a TON of clear. After the flake and clear are down wait a few days and put the car in the sun if you can. Then carefully sand with the coarsest grit you plan to use just to open the clear. Then wait a few more days, maybe a week if you can. When you break the clear open you will smell the solvents coming out. If you don't let most of these solvents get out you can get sinkers. Sinkers are when solvents get trapped under the flakes, and then over time slowly escape and the flakes "sink". Your spend all that time sanding and buffing to get that perfectly flat, smooth, mirror shine paint. Then after 3 months you start to see all these little shallow craters show up.... sinkers.

So after you wait a week block flat ending up with 600. Now you are ready for graphics.

Basecoat clear (BBC) (intercoat, binder, whatever the name of the day) is the stuff to use for candy graphics. I have been using the Sherwin Williams BBC with good luck recently.

Tape off your paterns (different discussion). Start with one medium coat of the BCC without any candy to lock the masking down. this helps prevent the candy from creeping under the tape. Let that flash good and the proceed with colors. Light coats until you get the intensity you are looking for. Let that flash good, then spray a couple of medium coats of the BCC over the color to protect it for when you need to scuff for final clear or when you screw up and have to sand overspray off it.

Keep a little of each color you used in a small jar. It's basecoat, so it will last if sealed well. Chances are you will need the one color you don't save later.

Watch your recoat windows!!!!!!!! There is a time frame where you can spray over fresh basecoat and you are all good. Then there is a period where you can't because the paint is in the middle of cross-linking and if you lay another coat down it will wrinkle on you. After the cross-linking is done you have another period where you are all good and don't have to scuff. If you wait too long you will need to scuff, but with out the clear BCC over the candy scuffing is not a good idea. That why I do the BCC over the color. So I can wait until the next morning to do cleanups, touch-ups, scuff, and clear.

Exacto knife is your friend. You can usually trim, peel and scrape the BCC candy off the flake substrate within 12 hrs. You can touch-up candy using an airbrush and nobody will be able to see it if you practice.

So, wait 12hrs so solvents can get out, scuff with marron pad, and spray 3 good coats of clear. After it cures you will still see your patterns ripple the shine of the clear and you will be able to feel the lines when you rub your hand across them.

Another careful blocking session with 400 will be needed. Then 2 coats of clear and that should give you the mirror shine you are looking for.

User avatar

Non-Lurker
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:06 pm

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:40 pm
Thanks guys for the information.

The data sheet of the intercoat that I am going to use has the flash/drying time note;

After final coat application allow to flash at least 30 minutes but no more than 24 hours before application of a 2K polyurethane clear.

So, wait 12hrs so solvents can get out, scuff with marron pad, and spray 3 good coats of clear. After it cures you will still see your patterns ripple the shine of the clear and you will be able to feel the lines when you rub your hand across them.


* So it shouldn’t be a problem waiting 12 hours +/- before hitting it with clear?

I sure wish it was warmer, I don't want to wait until Spring to have a go at this flake/candy stuff but will have to try and mask off the one garage that I have that is heated.
Sent by the random thoughts from the voices in my head...
Next

Return to Airbrushed Art & Custom Painting Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest