In the "real world" where economy paint systems are needed

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:22 pm
my question is for other professionals not for do it yourselfer's What line is performing the best for value based jobs that being said I have always been a DuPont guy but in my own shop I have PPG mixing system for dbc mbp mbc mtk and omni acrylic enamel for the past ten years and I only use top line products on collision but that only accounts for about 20% of my jobs the reason I nead real feadback is PPG service sucks in this area several shops I managed in the past we put in cromabase never a issue but not cost effective for the niche I'm in

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:53 pm
I should preface this with the disclaimer that not all the paints we use here are available there but I use Dupont solvent in the shop and although we have the binders for both the top of the range basecoats as well as the much cheaper acrylic, generally their economy basecoat (which is really their middle of the range product) does a pretty good job. Good coverage, fast flash and colour matches are fine, especially when using the spectro as well.

I'd think that most paint companies have both a premium and slightly cheaper line. Just how cheap, and nasty, that economy line is depends on the company concerned. In your position I'd be talking to suppliers in the area and getting them to give you some hard figures on a few typical job costs then try out some of their paint to be sure you've made the right decision. As you'd know, sometimes cheaper isn't always better if you have to use 4 coats instead of 2. :wink:
Chris



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:02 pm
I should have clarified we have PPG dbc and PPG omni mixing systems and I know this will ruffle some feathers but except for a few colors vary few with omni plus we get just as good coverage as dbc color match is the only difference that way the problem is junk clear junk primer chipping and vary bad support also no white or black sealer unless you want to use epoxy unless I use deltron that's just crazy to put that hi price sealer under omni base and clear so back to my question what are the pros and cons of other economy lines :clap:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:34 pm
While I paint for a living at my own family operated facility, have been in the business for about 3 years, I still consider myself a novice painter. I haven't used many of the products out there, but I'll speak on the very few that I have. We use Matrix Paint Systems. I never had any real issues with it. Color matches can be a little bit better, but I think that's more of an issue with the paint shops here in South Florida. I usually buy MPB, which is their top of the line. for a half pint of most colors I'm paying like $20-25. For the first time this week I tried Wanda paint. 077 Toyota pearl, paid a total of$90 for a Qt of base+Pearl. I think on dark colors and if you're painting the whole car it really doesn't make much a difference.



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:58 am
Well I have tried Sherwin Williams 4th Dimension and another call GenStar... PPG Enviro and Solvent, DuPont Chromabase... Omni... I do sportbikes exclusively although we do squeak in a set of cruiser tins from time to time. My primary issue with the base coats is the lazy techs that don't want to take the time to match the colors well. It seems to me that what you really get for a top-dollar system (And I just purchased a Glasurit 90 System) is color match. As for adhesion, ease of Buff... that kind of stuff can be manipulated by the painter IMHO - Lets face it, with water coming our way sooner or later ... how much can you really ask of base coat adhesion? In the next few years - in the end it all comes down to what clear you are going to slap over your water based paint as far as the results a customer is going to see are concerned. If you are doing a thorough polishing and your paint match is good then your customer won't noticed a difference.. maybe chipping on the front bumper if its a super cheap system but IMHO - after 3 months all clear coats tend to be about as hard as they will get. With every system I've used I have always seen that the aftermarket paints are not as well adhered as the OEM - Well duh, lets face it, they never will because manufacturers have the kind of facilities that make us folks weep with envy. Every since chip I have ever seen from any paint system has been between the primer and the base coat - unless the original paint is failing. So to try and bring it back home - I don't think it really makes much difference between any system accept when it comes to the color match - That advantage would go to whoever supplies the most OEM car makers and that's BASF. Beyond that, use a clear thats easy to buff. To the customer color match and finish quality are everything - so who cares how you get there as long as you don't break your own back and bank.
My love is in league with the freeway...



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:00 pm
Well in my shop, I started out with ppg valu line and deltron dbc base and at first a cheap clear (NOT GOOD). When that didn't work I used Omni clear with ppg base. Had good success but poor customer service from this area. So I switched and tried Metal-lux with Montana clear. Metal lux was hard to use without issues unless painting a complete vehicle, I have tried Dupont Chromabase, Which I like, used Montana clear on it with good results. I have had some comebacks a few years later with the Omni Clear lifting. So I won't use Omni clear anymore. Now PPG jobber has worked out the differences with me, and I tried some PPG dc2000 (I think it's called) Clear and it was very impressive. Also very expensive. That said, I like PPG's product a lot, will likely continue using their line. When I get done with the shop expansion will include putting in the ppg waterborne paint system. I believe that's the future and may as well head that direction. Sorry if I come across rambling, but I had to find out what worked for me, then stick to that system.
I also found that while some brands may be cheaper, it takes more material to cover or mixes 2:1 instead of 1:1 thus having to buy twice as much base. So I have found that a quality paint and a quality clear applied with quality guns (remember quality guns don't always equal the highest price) usually are the best option.
CHEAP work is never QUALITY, and QUALITY work is never CHEAP!!!



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:42 pm
Nason, its cheap

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:27 am
I have always been a DuPont guy as well. but up here in Canada we lost chroma base a few years back. Cromax pro is great stuff but the price point is high. Lately I sell mostly Urki base (same product as automotive arts motomix) its not as cheap as nason which I also sell, but a whole lot better product. nason base is wickedly thin and their color matches are terrible with limited pearls.. nason has recently started using the old DuPont powder pearls in some formulas but it greatly increases the cost and does nothing about the thin viscosity. our Urki base, and Urki mix is our go to products and have pretty good color matching capability when used with their alternate decks. Its middle of the road pricewise but 10 times better than nason

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