Epoxy and Rust Converter questions

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:01 pm
Hello guys. I recently decided to replace the flooring in my old trailer and the floor replacement snowballed into pretty much a full restoration. I have made some modifications to the front guard and added a spare tire mount, winch mount, and also have other new parts to install such as new fenders, led lights, brakes, bearings, etc. Since I have come this far I want to do the best I can with it. I am just a DIY guy, not a pro in any sense of the word. I need to get the trailer back in service soon but I am at a point with the prep where I am not sure how to continue. My questions are concerning rust converter and epoxy primer. The trailer doesn't have rust to the point of structural problems at all but it does have a moderate amount of surface rust throughout. I bought the Tamco DTA epoxy from this sight with plans to grind/wirebrush the scaly parts, degrease with a pressure washer, spray the epoxy, and then finish with good old Tractor Supply oil based enamel implement paint. At this point, I have most of the scaly rust brushed off and was planning to epoxy soon but then I thought I would test out some of the rust converter before epoxy. After doing a search on this site, I got the feeling that most folks here don't care much for rust converter type treatment and generally reccomend cutting out all rust and not using this stuff. But in this case it isn't a Chevelle or Cuda, it's just a utility trailer so I didn't see an issue with at least testing the stuff. So, I blew the trailer down with air, and wiped some of this stuff on in several different areas and variations of rust to see what happened. Initially it did turn the rust into a pretty black surface but when I opened the shop the next morning about half of the black had turned to a white powdery substance that looks as if you could just blow it off with an air gun but it doesn't. It's hard to remove in some places and easy to remove in others. Oddly, some of it still looks very good and some of it has the white substance on it. What are you guys' opinions on where to go from here? Should I forget the rust converter and jut spray the epoxy over the rusty frame or should I continue with the rust converter on the whole trailer? I am somewhat afraid that if I rust convert the entire trailer that this white substance will be everywhere and I will have to spend days wire wheeling it off. Or, is this white substance normal with this stuff and possible to just epoxy over it? I would like to here everyone's opinion on where to go from here with this. Thanks for taking the time to read such a long post.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:30 pm
Rust converter has to be neutralized.

You will need to apply another coat of rust converter and before it dries wash it off with soap and water. Rinse thoroughly and blow it dry with compressed air.

That white powdery stuff will cause you major adhesion problems.

Sandblasting is the best way to handle the kind of job you are doing as it produces a nice clean surface with enough texture for the epoxy to grab on to.
1968 Coronet R/T


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:44 pm
Thanks for the quick reply. I actually started off with one of the cheap eastwood 100lb pressurized blasters filled with the black diamond medium size media from tractor supply but it continuously got clogged up every 15-20 seconds and I got very frustrated with it. I have a fairly extensive air filtering system so I'm pretty certain it wasn't moisture related. Not sure what the problem was. (Other than being a very cheap unit) Then, as I was adjusting the flow, the cheap Chinese valve on the bottom of the unit broke and sprayed my arm with blasting media at 120 psi. That was 2 weeks ago and I am still picking pieces out of my arm. I trashed the blaster and don't have access to another at this time. So, you think I should basically remove what rust converter I have already applied and skip converting the entire trailer? Then just go ahead as originally planed and spray the entire trailer with epoxy over the surface rust? Just to clarify, when I say "surface rust" there will be no scaly rust or dust left when I get ready to spray. Just that orangey rust pitting that you can't really remove mechanically other than blasting.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:30 am
You can use the rust converter but you must neutralize it like I described above before putting any epoxy on it.
Also, wire brushing metal doesn't really provide enough scratch for the epoxy to get maximum adhesion. I would suggest the first thing you do is go over the metal with 80 grit on a Dual Action Sander. In areas where that cannot be done with the DA, scratch up the metal by hand with 80 grit.
Treat the rust until it is black, then neutralize as described above. Dry it real well with compressed air, then let it sit until you are sure the metal is dry.
Shoot two coats of epoxy waiting the required flash time between coats.
Doing this will make that trailer last longer than you or I will.

Have you verified that the oil based implement paint is okay going over epoxy primer?
1968 Coronet R/T


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:47 pm
No Sir I have not verified the compatibility of the oil based paint. I don't know what I was thinking. Thanks so much for pointing that out to me. I absolutely need to do some research on that. I think I will try to get in touch with Tamco and see what they have to say. I may have to end up going with a traditional single stage paint but I would much rather use the implement paint if possible. I have had good luck with it sticking to some of my equipment in the past BUT, have never epoxied first. And also a big thanks for your replies and helping me figure out the process. I have a ton of other work that needs to be done so finishing up this trailer may take me a couple of weeks especially with our wet weather here lately. I don't want to be using the rust converter on a large scale inside my shop so I am planning to do it outside and need the weather to cooperate. I will definitely let you know how everything works out though. You will be able to see your suggestions in action!



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:55 pm
Sorry to be so windy and keep pestering you but I have one more question about the rust converter and I want to make sure I am understanding exactly what you are trying to teach me. I was just reviewing your post describing the steps I should take. I was going over the process in my head trying to picture mentally how to do it and I realized I wasn't 100 % clear on WHEN to neutralize the converter. I did another test this morning and applied a second coat of converter on top of some of the white substance that was left from the first coat and when I came back this evening the white substance was mostly gone and had turned black in the areas I applied the second coat. This makes me think that about 3 coats of converter and the white substance would be totally gone. Is this what you were suggesting I do or were you suggesting that I wash and neutralize the white substance between EACH coat of rust converter? I just want to make sure I am understanding correctly what you are suggesting.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:58 pm
Convert the rust and it will turn black. Might take two coats and it sounds like you are there now.

In order to neutralize the converter you must do the following:

Get a bucket of warm water and put a good amount of dish soap in it and a couple of 3" x 3" squares of red Scotchbrite to scrub with.

Apply another coat of rust converter and BEFORE it dries scrub that section with the soapy water. The soap will neutralize the phosphoric acid (rust converter) and prevent any white powdery substance or film from covering the surface. Rinse well with clean water.

Repeat this process one section at time until the whole trailer is done.
1968 Coronet R/T


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:40 pm
Got it this time. Thank you very much.



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:39 pm
Ok guys work has been crazy but I finally found the time to get this trailer sprayed and just wanted to share my results and thank those that helped with their suggestions and maybe even ask for a little more help. After many weeks of welding/cutting/grinding/rust converting/degreassing/ etc in my spare time, last week I finally got to the point where I sprayed 2 coats of the Tamco Epoxy DTA primer in black and it laid on perfectly. I let it set for about a week and then I scuffed the whole trailer with some 400 grit. I used a DA where I could and hand sanded where the DA couldn't reach. I scuffed every square inch of steel on the trailer. Today, the weather cooperated and I was able to finally spray the finish coat. I used a brand of paint called Van Sickle from a store called Orschlen's Farm Supply which is very similar to Tractor Supply and the implement paints they carry. It is an oil based enamel and I used the optional catalyst/hardener. I did end up with a few runs here and there, mostly around the fenders but it's just a trailer and my main concern with this is that I wanted to keep it from rusting. I am thinking of maybe trying to fix the runs on the fenders though. Does anyone have any tips on removing runs from this type of paint? How would I actually go about doing that?

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