Metalflake Candy Apple acrylic lacquer

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:12 pm
Hi guys.

I'm probably a decade or two late on this subject but ......

I have a few old Yamahas (1970s) which had candy paintwork from the factory. I bought a bunch of Metalflake brand candy paint to re-paint them and was happy with the results.

Problem is I ran out of the Metalflake thinners and have never been able to establish what can be used as an alternative.

I live in the UK and 1K acrylic was never really sold here. Our lacquer paints were cellulose. great for DIY guys much like the 1K acrylic youz had.

Now I either junk the stuff I have or move onto 2K products. I think you call them Urethanes?

I'm not keen on this as I'm not a pro-painter and understand air-fed mask is a good idae with the hardeners/activators having isocyanates in them.

Any thoughts?



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:26 pm
I would try a little of your cellulose with the metal flake stuff, just mix a small cap full and see if it will mix. if it will then you should be ok, note I said should be. lacquer is pertly forgiving. it been a long time since I used and cellulose lacquer most always acrylic.
Jay D.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:23 am
Thanks Jay



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:29 am
I find it hard to believe that acrylic never caught on in the UK. We've used it since the late 50's, and even "gun cleaning" thinner is acrylic. But, anyway, I've shot nitrocellulose lacquer, using acrylic thinners, not problem at all. I agree with Jay, it should work out fine. You could even reduce it with acetone, if in a pinch. But using the correct temperature thinner is even more important.



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:28 pm
Thanks chopolds.

The irony is we now do get 1K acrylic. All our rattle-cans are now acrylic when they used to be cellulose. Our gunwash thinners are cellulose, or at least used to be. They now just say 'standard thinners' on them

I did once put cellulose thinners in 1K acrylic clear and it was a bit of a disaster.

I bought the clear (Mipa C10 Klarlack) from a local paint-factor and asked him about thinning ratios. He seemed a bit annoyed about this and said "fifty fifty" so I thinned it with my cellulose thinners and it seemed ok but the paint crazed badly a week or so later.

Mipa is a German brand and now that we are all online I've read the data sheet for C10 and it turns out that it's a RFU product so I'm not sure if it was the cellulose that ruined to outcom or just thae fact that I diluted it so much.



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:47 am
Yes, there is a serious problem with terminology between countries. I've seen any type of clear referred to as lacquer. Acrylic applies to both lacquers and enamels. Non-US users seem to exclusively use it for the enamel version. Using lacquer thinner in acrylic enamels can be done (carefully!) but in reality, not recommended. At a 50-50 ratio, it will fail. But by researching this stuff on forums like this, you'll gain a better understanding of the chemistry, and terminology used in the US. Hopefully it will help you in the UK!



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:07 am
you want to be using a clear binder for the application of metal flake.

Google Lechler BC clear binder that is the one you want.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:24 pm
Hi R&R.

The Metalflake reference is perhaps misleading.

That is the brand I used. It wasn't 'flake' paint.

Metalflake did plain acrylic lacquers (white & black) plus around 10 colours of candy which had no flake in them.

This was on top of the numerous types of flake they sold (Mirra, Spindrift, Glowble etc).

I did buy some of their flake and used it suspended in 1K acrylic with no problems. This was after the disaster with the cellulose thinner in 1K clear.

Image

1974 Yamaha RD125 tank in Desert Sand Metalflake with decals replicated in Metalflake black & white acrylic lacquers



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:31 pm
chopolds wrote:Yes, there is a serious problem with terminology between countries. I've seen any type of clear referred to as lacquer. Acrylic applies to both lacquers and enamels. Non-US users seem to exclusively use it for the enamel version. Using lacquer thinner in acrylic enamels can be done (carefully!) but in reality, not recommended. At a 50-50 ratio, it will fail. But by researching this stuff on forums like this, you'll gain a better understanding of the chemistry, and terminology used in the US. Hopefully it will help you in the UK!


very true chopolds. Am I right about Urethane being 2K acrylic? The bit that confuses me is Urethane Enamel being different to Urethane.

Also one that is common here - synthetic enamel - never seems to get mentioned in USA. This is what I'd call tractor paint. It's old fashioned. you usually brush it on but it can be sprayed thinned with white spirit. The primer that goes with it (enamel primer) is chalky. It air dries slowly. You can't wet-sand it. It's nice and shiny. What would that be in USA?



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:02 am
Yes, synthetic enamel is the oldest technology. Not very sophisticated, used very little in automotive, mostly industrial/farm use. The next stage in technology was acrylic enamel. Centari was Dupont's version. An improvement over synthetic (Dupont's Dulux), and especially user friendly and durable when they came out with a hardener for it. Kind of making it a 2K product.
The next stage of development was polyurethane enamel, mostly used on trucks, airplanes, anything severe duty. It was a VERY tough finish, also one of the first to be very dangerous to use (isocyanates as a hardener). Imron was Dupont's version.
The next step was urethane enamels, which included base/clear, now we are trending toward water borne systems.
The terms 2 K just means that a hardener is used to chemically "cure" the paint to make it solid, as opposed to letting solvents evaporate to "dry" it. Makes them more chemically , and abrasion resistant, Dries (or more correctly, cures) faster, and is able to be touched up later on.
You can make a synthetic or acrylic enamel a 2K, by using the dedicated hardener in it, even though it was originally formulated to be an air dry enamel. Polyurethanes, urethane are made as a 2K product, they won't dry if you don't' use the hardener.
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