Follow up to the follow up glue vs weld test.........

General Discussion. Make yourself at home...read, ask and answer!



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:38 am
Well, I have another follow up on my sons science project of a few years ago. http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/welding ... 16090.html In this thread you will see when using these adhesives properly they kick the welds and bolts butt! But many people suggested I do a "peel" test to see how they held up. Even though you would never use it this way, you would never put these kind of forces on it in your car. So, I did the peel test............

The first follow up had a few glitches, http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/follow- ... 45782.html so I re-did a portion of it. Even with the ABUSE I put on it, it STILL out performed the spot welds. But for some reason a couple of the bonds failed VERY fast, one with only the weight of the chains and clamps broke! This opened up a whole new can of worms for me.

My first thought on this adhesive was that it eliminated "variables" in skill needed over the welds. In other words I thought that you could "do no wrong", just grind the surface, but the "glue" and stick it together. Where welding requires so much more skill and tools. This thought was proven wrong by my test. I still am not totally clear on what I did wrong, but I did something wrong for these bond to fail so quickly. In my hast to get these test panels put together in my valuable spare time I must have not prepped them properly somehow. I am thinking that one of two things happened, one, I didn't blow off the metal after I ground it leaving dust there. Or two, I didn't press the adhesive into the scratches well. Anyway you look at it, it didn't perform well at all. HOWEVER this was an ABUSE test, if even with the poor prep I believe it would have kicked butt on a more fair test as my son performed in his science project.


First off you my notice a different color of the adhesive. Hmmmmm They changed it on me, same part number, different color.

Before I say a thing, I must make it clear, I am ABUSING this adhesive. NO WHERE does it say you can use this adhesive like this where the forces would be put on it like this, NO WHERE in any instructions or suggestions by the manufacturer is it said to use it like this. I am SERIOUSLY ABUSING the product. I would be like running a motor without any oil, like painting a car without sanding it, like putting 110 volts to your car radio. I am ABUSING IT, so don't think this stuff doesn't perform well when it is not being abused. When it is being used as per the manufacturers recommendations, it passes tests against welds with flying colors.

So, here you go, I had bonded them back together making sure the ground area was blown off well and the bonding material was pressed into the scratches in the metal before clamping them together. This was done months ago and had been sitting in a cart by my box. Yesterday I was at the shop working on my Gran Sport and saw them, there was nothing on the frame rack so I walked over and ripped the test coupons apart. :D

The result with the weld bead was pretty much the same, the glue fought much harder than before, but still failed against the bead. This is pretty hard on the bond, the other two coupons are virtually one piece with the bead welded across them.

The bolts on the other hand came close to loosing.
Image


Remember, the bolts gave the glue the most run for the money back in my sons science project. The glue STILL won out though. This time it really put up a fight.
Image

Image


I was unable to look at the amount of pressure being I couldn't stand to see the gauge do to flying metal. But the chain was pulled TIGHT, like a guitar string! Even with the EXTREME ABUSE I put on this adhesive, it darn near won out over those bolts!

You can look up crash tests using these autobody structural adhesives all over the net, they WORK. And my sons test and the follow up peel tests I have done prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they WORK and WORK WELL. There are a lot of places in custom fabing and restoration where they can be used.

Final disclaimer, I ABUSED THE PRODUCT TO MAKE IT FAIL!

Brian
Free lance adviser

"Hitting the pavement at 100 mph really smarts"
Evel Knievel



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:16 pm
Good stuff Brian. A number of years ago, Lords came to the shop and demoed the metal to metal adhesive for us. Two pieces of metal, lapped one over the other, put on the rack and pulled. If I remember correctly, it was about 10 tons and the metal sheared behind the adhesive weld, keeping the weld perfect. Interesting. :wink:



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:37 pm
Its very clear in the second pic that the sheet metal was failing!

Cool tests
I am looking forward to trying this stuff my self.
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:51 am
Doright, please look at the links to the first test my son and I did, THAT was some impressive stuff! I was sure one of those welds or bolts would kick the glues ars, but the glue won every time!

Brian
Free lance adviser

"Hitting the pavement at 100 mph really smarts"
Evel Knievel

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:17 am
I like your disclaimers Brian, You're starting to sound
like a lawyer-LOL.

The glues today are remarkable, my friend that owns a shop
now uses them instead of welds like he used to.
I have full confidence in them but do wonder if over
enough time there will be failures way down the road.
Time is the real test. 8)
JC.

(It's not custom painting-it's custom sanding)

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