Body Filler Over Epoxy Primer - To Sand Or Not To Sand

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:02 pm
Nothing wrong with filler over bare metal but over epoxy you have much better corrosion protection. Btw, im sure you checked the tech sheet but not all epoxies have a 7 day window. Some arue as little as 24 hours.



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:50 pm
They say that a picture is wirth a thousand words - well, this about sums up how I feel about my day today....
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:01 am
jim c wrote:If your getting close to the window you need to sand.40 grit is a bit extreme.80 to 150 is adequate.


Thanks for that info... As I will be epoxying some panels next week and it maybe a while before I get to do the filler work.

Thanks.
Steve
1970, 350/200-4R, TPI, 373:1 Posi 12 bolt, Body Off In Progress
[IMG]http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq318/slaman37/100_7024.jpg[/IMG]



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:27 am
the picture hahaha that was good. but don't let it get to you there are allways ups and downs in auto painting with the downs we are learning, and with the ups we get great sadisfaction it feels good. just stay cool :)
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:43 am
Well, ,a new day - a new experience! I finished the door up around 1:30 Am this morning - the old fashioned way - took it down to bare metal - did all of the body work to where a coat of high build should take care of any lille issues and this morning, I'm going to put the epoxy primer on and send it home. The man who owns the door will put the high build on it and do the final prep. I do think that from here on, I'll just do it the old way.. it gets really frustrating and expensive redoing things. As they say, better the devil you know than the one you don't. BTW, I did read the tech sheet and that primer does have a seven day window in which to apply top coatings and filler. ANyways, thank you for the input.. fell free to add more ideas and thoughts if you wish. Gary

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:55 am
Yah looks like no adhesion. The picture looks like no sanding underneath what your peeling off it looks smooth substrate.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:26 am
Here's what I like to do:
1. Strip to bare metal.
2. Go over bare metal with 80 grit on DA to prep for epoxy primer.
3. Prep and spray 2 coats of unreduced epoxy. Use flash time between coats and let dry overnight.
4. Lightly block sand with 150-180 grit to expose high and low spots.
5. Apply quality filler and work the panel straight. (No need to sand the epoxy in the low spots or to strip to metal.)
6. Prep and spray 1 coat of reduced epoxy as sealer coat. (note: you will see repaired areas as different texture don't worry about it)
7. Spray 2 coats of polyester primer and let dry. (Clean gun quickly. :D )
8. Guide coat and block sand with 220 to insure straight, flat panels.
9. Prep and spray 3 coats of 2k primer and let dry.
10. Guide coat and block sand with 400 grit until guide coat is gone.
11. Block sand wet with 800 grit on a soft pad. (solid colors 400 will work, metallic 600 will work, I use 800 for both.)
12. Wash car, wipe with W&G remover and let flash, wipe with 50/50 mix and let flash.
13. Spray sealer (if you choose) and follow with base and then clear.

I know it seems like a lot of steps and maybe somebody can show me a better way but it has worked well for me.
1968 Coronet R/T


ACTS 16:31



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:55 pm
Hmmmmmmmmmm.. interesting.. I have several questions for you that maybe you can answer.. I am using Dimensions epoxy primer - just so that you know.. I'll insert my comments and questions in the text of your post below..

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:Here's what I like to do:
1. Strip to bare metal.
I prefer to take a car right down if it is a keeper or a special job - what about a quickie though - say a winter beater that you just want to freshen up I have a 92 Ford pickup that I want to splash but I really do not want to take all of the factory paint off
2. Go over bare metal with 80 grit on DA to prep for epoxy primer.
OK..
3. Prep and spray 2 coats of unreduced epoxy. Use flash time between coats and let dry overnight.
I have no idea thatyou could apply epoxy primer unreduced.. the stuff that I am using has three components - the actual primer, reducer and a hardener - I mix 8 parts paint, two parts reducer and one part hardener.. What sort of primer do you use?
4. Lightly block sand with 150-180 grit to expose high and low spots.
OK
5. Apply quality filler and work the panel straight. (No need to sand the epoxy in the low spots or to strip to metal.)
After yesterday's experience, I think I'd be much more at ease taking the low spots down to bare metal
6. Prep and spray 1 coat of reduced epoxy as sealer coat. (note: you will see repaired areas as different texture don't worry about it)
OK
7. Spray 2 coats of polyester primer and let dry. (Clean gun quickly. :D )
You are referring to high build primer - right?
8. Guide coat and block sand with 220 to insure straight, flat panels.
OK - what do you use as a guide coat?
9. Prep and spray 3 coats of 2k primer and let dry.
Pardon my ignorance here - but are you saying thatyou use three different types of primer? I used to paint here at home on a regular basis but that was before all of these new terms and materials.. I understand epoxy and high build primer but exactly what are you referring to when you say 2K primer? I think I understand but I just want to be clear...
10. Guide coat and block sand with 400 grit until guide coat is gone.
OK
11. Block sand wet with 800 grit on a soft pad. (solid colors 400 will work, metallic 600 will work, I use 800 for both.)
OK
12. Wash car, wipe with W&G remover and let flash, wipe with 50/50 mix and let flash.
OK
13. Spray sealer (if you choose) and follow with base and then clear.
I have never used sealer in the past and I never, ever had issues or customer complaints or comebacks. Some of my jobs that I did fifteen years ago using old school technology are still running around and they still look good. I'm talking laquer primer, laquer glaze putty and acrylic and even synthetic enamels... I know you guys are cringing atthe use of those words but it sure worked for me back then. One thing I always believed in was to let my fillers, putty and primers cure and I think that a lot of the issues that people have had with that old stuff was they are in a hurry and theyapply too much putty and then don't allow it to dry properly rather than applying it in light skim coats. I dunno but things sure did seem a lot more simple back then. I am self taught - I watched old bodymen and asked questions and I was taught that there are no short cuts. ANyways - sorry for the ramble.. I really would value your input here as I want to learn. It seems that everyone has their own ways of doing things - I read SO many posts that contradict each other as to how to do this.. I guess I will just have to find what works for me - and I amnot closed minded. I appreciate everyone adding to this thread.. I am not the only one learning from it I am sure. My questions may seem stupid but they are legitimate and after having had a miold stroke almost six years ago, I don't always absorb the information right away. SOmetimes it takes reading something a few times.. sometimes not. So please bear with me..and thank you from my heart for your time, trouble, counsel, help and caring. We'll get 'er done yet! :) :) :)

I know it seems like a lot of steps and maybe somebody can show me a better way but it has worked well for me.
It's the little things that really make a difference in work and in life.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:05 pm
1. On a repaint that you are sure there is no paint failure (clear peeling, base oxidized, etc.) you don't have to strip to bare metal.
3. I use ********** primers and clears (they don't make base at this time) in my humble opinion they are great quality products at very reasonable prices. Mixes 1:1 and can be reduced with urethane reducer. You can check them out here: http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/Pr ... 0lines.htm
5. Of course you can strip to metal and apply filler HOWEVER it is not necessary and I believe it is better to apply the filler over the epoxy for rust protection. The car I am now working on (see Completed Projects 1965 Buick Special Convertible) had the filler applied directly to the metal and I have found rust under the filler in a number of locations.
7. Polyester primer is like spray on body filler. Some common names are Slicksand and FeatherFill. They are a high build but dry via a catalyst rather than evaporation of solvents.
8. 3M Dry Guide Coat is what I like. It is pricey but I have done two complete cars and still have more left. It is kind of like finger print powder.
9. Yes, I use 3 different primers. The polyester primer isn't really necessary but it is kind of like skimming the whole car with body filler and then sanding it flat however you don't spray color directly over filler so in the same way you need to spray an intermediate over the poly. The phrase 2K basically mean any two component product. You have the filler and then you add the activator to it. In my case the primer I buy through ********** is named Regular 2k primer. They also offer a High Build 2k and a Turbo but I haven't used either as yet.
13. Sealers are not necessary but in some cases can be a help. They will give you a consistent color (some can be tinted) and foundation for spraying your color over.

No problems with the old ways of doing things but there are better products out there today and once you get the hang of them I think you'll like them.
Here is a link to an article that walks you through the process step by step: http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/pe ... 0paint.htm
Yes there are many different ways of doing things and many different product lines available. Since I am a home based, part time, restoration type guy, I try to get the most bang for my $$ without compromising quality. I never buy the "production or shop line" products simply because the manufacturers obviously took something out to be able to sell their #2 lines for less. I tried the Omni line one time and still have some setting on the shelf that is 5 years old - just to cheap to throw it away.
Before finding ********** I was using PPG epoxy primer (price is staggering) and RM Diamont for base and clear but every time I went to buy something the price went up. By the way, ********** prices include the shipping costs.
1968 Coronet R/T


ACTS 16:31
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