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Lizard Skin VS Dynamat for sound proofing

General Discussion. Make yourself at home...read, ask and answer!



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:39 am
Before i rant you should know my background. Before i became a body man i was a custom car audio installer that specialized in sound quality competition installs, so ive been around a LOT of deadening. From my personal experience the spray on liners arent what you want for the entire vehicle. They tend to be a HUGE pain in the rear at times. they DO have a few application where they really shine though. They are exceptionally good in tight areas where a mat simply can not reach. For example, inside an A/B/C pillar, in that spot behind the kick panels, or in the spot where the C pillar and parcel shelf meet if its got that hollow opening. BUT as far as the entire car, I cant say enough about RAAMMAT and the ensolyte foam they have. I've used all of the major brands before and for the MOST part they are all pretty much the same when it comes to the upper end of the spectrum. RAAMMAT, however, does everything a sound quality competition car needs (when coupled with ensolyte) but it ends up costing a good bit less. i dont want to sound like some paid spokesman, i just love the product. That being said, any mat you choose you should for sure go with a butyl ... NOT ASPHAULT (hardware store "peel n seal"). asphault based mats WILL run and fall and stink. and dynamat WILL cut the sh*t out of you, i have the scars to prove it. Whenever you do install whatever you choose dont butt one piece to another, overlap it by about an inch. You dont have to do as much mat as you may think either, mainly flat panels need it most and the reinforced spots dont need anything. Just do a "rap test" make sure your not putting your body weight on the panel your going to test then hit it, if it goes thud your golden if not put a second layer ( a full piece or usually even just strips). If you still want a quieter inside put lizard skin in the spots i mentioned before and if you hear any high pitched noises in-cabin the ensolyte will stop it. For heat, with RAAM and Dynamat you shouldnt have to worry, I've never seen the good stuff come unstuck if applied properly (OE stuff removed and then cleaned with wax and grease remover). my cars are all black or white and my roofs are all deadened, never have i had an issue in the summer.

www.raamaudio.com if ya wanna take a look

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:02 am
:goodpost: sounds like you know what your talking about, i'm going to check out the raammat thanks :)
they say my name is Jay

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:07 am
:welcome:
Glad to find a good review on RAAMMAT! I wanted to use this product but most of the reviews I found were people who were dealers trying to push it. Most of the car audio forums are flooded with people who repeat info and its hard to get a solid review. I'm building a vehicle for some sound competitions this summer. I saw my first real comp last summer and now I'm hooked. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:59 am
badsix wrote::goodpost: sounds like you know what your talking about, i'm going to check out the raammat thanks :)


Yes, thanks for that information as I need to purchase some for my R/T and was thinking of going the Lowes or Home Depot route.
1968 Coronet R/T - a work in progress.


ACTS 16:31

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:34 am
yea, sound deadener expensive. i was thinking the stuff at lowes would work but as GANNASTAAR said i think it will stink. i'm not afraid to spend money for a good product i just want something i'll be happy with :)
they say my name is Jay

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:08 pm
My thoughts as well. In Arizona the sun can heat a roof to unbelievable temperatures in no time at all.
1968 Coronet R/T - a work in progress.


ACTS 16:31



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:23 pm
yeah, the hardware store route will have you cursing ever doing it. The asphault begins to melt WAY faster than you would think then it runs like thick paint. ive seen it ruin A pillars and dash panels. and if your goin for a comp id suggest 2 layers in a good many places like the door skins and then covering with ensolyte. that foam stuff does a really good job of deadening the higher pitch noises. if you would ever need any more advice on anything like that let me know :) It doesnt help now but as soon as i get my S14 chassis blasted and coated ill make a tutorial video on installing deadening and eliminating random noises in the cabin.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:06 pm
COOL :happy:
they say my name is Jay

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:26 am
Looking forward to the tutorial. :pcorn: :D

A couple tricks I have found..... Isolate rattles and determine if they are caused by 2 panels hitting together. I have found a lot of spot welded areas that have 2 panels banging up against each other during vibration. Wedge a piece of sounded deadening material or closed cell foam in between the offending panels or add more spot welds, whichever is convenient. I've actually added a lot of spot welds to some panels like back hatches, decklids and hoods. Some OEM place spot welds every 8" - 12" or more. Two panels vibrating against each other is one of the most common problems.

Other problem areas are:
1) loose door panels, window frames, window channels/regulators, door handles and mechanisms. Its relatively easy to make a door panels more rigid or anchor it to the door better so it doesn't vibrate. Its a lot harder to work with loose window channels or door handles that rattle. You have to get creative with shims, closed cell foam or other forms of taking up the gap. Sometimes it takes replacing roll pins, pop rivets or bushings (hinges). Good door seals and window rubbers are a must!

DO NOT use expanding spray foam (Great Stuff) or any type of open-cell foam. These types of materials can trap moisture and cause premature rust/cancer in panels. I have seen a lot of VWs with unusual rust/cancer in areas that were carpeted or had foam rubber or expanding foam. The factory C-pillar on the later model cars had expanding foam (spray foam) inside and you'll notice a lot of them running around with rust bubbles, sometimes cancer all the way through. :( I can't wait to see how long the cars of the late 90s and early 2000's last that are spray foamed inside and out from the factory :rolleyes: (Jeep, Mercedes)



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:54 pm
Good lookin bobby. i was gonna mention alot of the same tricks but my post was gettin to be a good bit long. I agree with the spot weld issues. i had that issue on a ZJ grand cherokee before and ended up using thinned down bed liner in the gap, it....worked... something like second skin would have been way better. Adding spot welds is one of those things that noid me tho. It's one of the things you plain arent allowed to do as a collision tech because of crumple zones and whatnot. but if its your car and you think like me "my german led sled should be able to drive through a house with only clear coat scratches :allgood: " it wont be a problem if ya got a spot welder.
as far as all the other bits like loose random interior pieces and such like door handles, vents, or where panels meet i've found that any nice closed cell foam works well. i like to use ensolyte and cut out a nice sq.inch or double for bigger bolts and then fold the piece in half and set it on a board then punch a hole in it with a nail or other multi purpose poking tool. once you have a nice little patch thing just use it like a washer... nylon washers work too ... sometimes... but i prefer the closed cell foam patches.
Expanding foam... you got it bobby. that crap is just devistating. the OEM stuff is fail enough as it is (and a true PITA to section) but the stuff you would put in yourself will almost always get moisture in it in under month. the rust is, well we all know rust, but the rot in the foam itself is nasty, it smells horrid, making you think its wet carpet and chasing that around untill you realize the foam is bad and you get to pick out some awesome goo.


on another note.. while im waiting on my chassis can anyone recommend a good car shipping company? im in PA and my chassis is sittin FLA :roll:

EDIT: just thought of a trick i use for door mechanisms (rods and wires). where they go into the shell from the handle or whatever i run them through a piece of split loom wire management stuff. sometimes i like to glue a bit of foam inside the split loom (if im goin anal) and near the other end if it can bump into the window reg or other stuff in there i get a little strip of deadner mat and wrap it around (like an inch or 3) just make sure to stay a good few inches back from the latch and similar things if you do that. Once that's done put the mat on the inner side of the shell and use some "shiny tape" (the aluminum faced stuff for house HVAC) to attach it to the mat you put on the shell
and another qucik tip is to lubricate freakin everything, if you get a latch that sits just right sometimes its the best way to stop a few things.
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