Need help making a list of needed materials/general help

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:57 am
Hey there guys. This is my first post so bare with me, I'm sure its frustrating at times having the new guys ask the same questions over and over. I've read through a few stickies, and they have all been massively helpful. I do feel that asking a few questions directly will help me prevent myself from seriously screwing anything up, so I figured it couldn't hurt to ask a few (possibly repetitive) questions. I'll give you guys some background information to help with this whole process.

Background:

I have close to no background in automotive painting, I'm a college student (broke/living at home), and the paint job I want to do is to repaint my 1997 Honda Prelude a different color (currently a seriously sun-faded red.) My dad has a decent amount of experience with automotive painting and he will be giving me a hand throughout the process. I'm only here because I fear that he is at times a little cheap and reckless with some things and I figured I should gather some info on my own before just taking his word for it! I don't expect to do a perfect job, but I would like something that looks fairly decent. We have a pretty decent air compressor here (dad has used it for past paint projects), a decent paint gun, and plenty of different tools that could be used for prep (I think). The car currently has quite a few dents on the drivers side door and a bit on the quarter. There is some surface rust on the trunk (around the keyhole) and some rust on the front of the hood (surface).


My questions are as follows:

1. I recently bought a gallon of paint from ScratchWizard (LA9W/1K, Carbon Steel Grey Metallic.) I bought some Finish 1 Primer (FP410) too. I have yet to buy some clear. The website suggests Finish 1 Clear Coat FC720, but I've read good and bad things about this primer. Do you guys have any suggestions as to what clear I should use with the paint bought from scratchwizard? If not, are there ways I can see how compatible some paints/primers are with other paints/primers?

2. I want to buy every kind of sandpaper I will need. I read the sticky about what kind of grits to use for what. I also read that 3M and Norton are the best go to brands. Do either of these brands have kits that will include all of the sandpaper I need? If not, can somebody link me to the sandpaper I will need? I would like something relatively affordable, I don't need the best sandpaper out there exactly.

3. Are most paint jobs hand-sanded? If not, what kind of tools would you use for prep?

4. Can any of you link me to a video guide of the prep work from start to finish? I feel like I'd understand it better if I saw it visually.

5. How would you guys take on my rust situation with the car?

I understand I probably threw a lot of stuff at you guys, and at some points my questions/statements might not be that clear. Feel free to ask any questions.

Thanks everyone for your time in advance, I'm hoping I can get more comfortable with the idea of doing this before the end of the summer.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:10 am
http://www.autobody101.com/content/arti ... ould-know/

The are way too many paint products out there for a detailed discussion on the pros and cons of each.
That being said, you will find that guys who paint cars regularly tend to stick to certain products and product lines.
Urethane based products are the most widely used today for colors and clear. Enamels still see some use in farm equipment and lawn furniture. You want to avoid lacquer based products unless you use them exclusively from start to finish.
Epoxy primer is the most popular with restorers and etch primer is used by many auto body shops were time is critical.
Epoxy can be applied under and over body filler where etch primer cannot be used under filler.

You will need to post pictures of your rust problems. Many newbies see "surface rust" where experienced eyes see indications of "serious rust."
1968 Coronet R/T


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:10 pm
Yeah some pics of the rust areas will help, the best way to attack rust is to sandblast it, hitting it with a grinder just removes metal without getting rid of the rust that's pitted, and if there`s holes you will need a mig welder or someone that has one that can weld it for you, solid .023 wire works great



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:10 am
there are many youtube clips if you search, some of my favourites are by "restolad", he explains stuff really well and has a cool kiwi accent, lol
you cant buy a sandpaper kit as far as I know, it all depends if your gonna goto metal or simply scuff and paint, some pics would be great, it will give us something to give you some detailed advice on
are the materials you have bought lacquer or 2 part components?
I use a 6" orbital sander for most of my prep work, I hook it upto my elcheap workshop vacume to keep the dust down, saves cleaning it all up and I don't need to wear a mask!!
all my final prep work is done by hand at the moment as im still un confident about final sanding with a machine.
post up some pics and we can shoot a some detailed advice
krem



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:40 pm
Thanks guys for all of the replies. Every one of them has been extremely helpful. I do have a sandblaster so it seems that I have the right tools for the job. I'll post photos of the rust tomorrow probably, I've been pretty busy these past few days and haven't been able to snap any photos.

All of my questions above have generally been answered. Some other questions I've come across are as follows.

1. I've read the tech sheet of the Finish 1 FP410 Primer and it says "To Seal: P400 To Topcoat: P600". I'm assuming this means the car should be sanded with P400 sandpaper before you spray the primer, and once you're done applying primer you should sand it with P600 for the base coat. Is that correct? That is how I am reading it. P600 seems a little high to me, is it also dependent on the type of paint I'm using? I'm using a Martin Senour paint, and the tech sheet also says to use P600 to prep the primer for the top coat.

2. Can somebody read through the "Substrates" on the FP410 sheet? Through this, what should I sand down to? Should I sand down to factory primer or bare metal? What is this dependent on? It uses terminology I'm unfamiliar with.

http://apps.sherwin-automotive.com/medi ... AS2805.pdf

3. Would you guys suggest using the D/A for most of the prep work? Or is this risky for a beginner? What would be a safer bet? Block sanding or using the D/A? Also, are there any types of D/A's I should avoid? Could buying a cheap one possibly mess everything up? Any recommendations for a relatively cheap one?

These are mainly the questions I've been trying to figure out this week. I finally have 4 days off of work this weekend, so this job has to get done this weekend. (Satuday-Tuesday) I'm kind of going into a panic due to being overwhelmed with all of this information. I just want to avoid wasting 400+ dollars on materials due to something that could have been prevented by a bit of knowledge.

Thanks again guys, I'm sorry if these questions come off redundant or oversimplified. I'll come back with photos of the rust spots tomorrow.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:35 am
xmakeafistx wrote:Thanks guys for all of the replies. Every one of them has been extremely helpful. I do have a sandblaster so it seems that I have the right tools for the job. I'll post photos of the rust tomorrow probably, I've been pretty busy these past few days and haven't been able to snap any photos.

All of my questions above have generally been answered. Some other questions I've come across are as follows.

1. I've read the tech sheet of the Finish 1 FP410 Primer and it says "To Seal: P400 To Topcoat: P600". I'm assuming this means the car should be sanded with P400 sandpaper before you spray the primer, and once you're done applying primer you should sand it with P600 for the base coat. Is that correct? That is how I am reading it. P600 seems a little high to me, is it also dependent on the type of paint I'm using? I'm using a Martin Senour paint, and the tech sheet also says to use P600 to prep the primer for the top coat.


Sealer and Primer are two different products. Sealer is optional and applied prior to base coat. If you plan to use a sealer then wet sanding with 400 is what they suggest.
Wet sanding with 600 prior to spraying color is pretty much standard operating procedure nowadays. Follow the tech sheets for your products and don't "assume" anything.



xmakeafistx wrote: 2. Can somebody read through the "Substrates" on the FP410 sheet? Through this, what should I sand down to? Should I sand down to factory primer or bare metal? What is this dependent on? It uses terminology I'm unfamiliar with.

http://apps.sherwin-automotive.com/medi ... AS2805.pdf


Basically it boils down to this: if you are unsure of the quality or condition of the paint presently on the car, strip it to metal and use a DTM (direct to metal) primer such as epoxy or etch to properly prepare the metal.
Factory BC/CC jobs where the paint is in good condition (no fading, peeling, cracking, etc.) can be wet sanded with 600 and sprayed over. This isn't your case though because you stated the car is "sun faded red."


xmakeafistx wrote: 3. Would you guys suggest using the D/A for most of the prep work? Or is this risky for a beginner? What would be a safer bet? Block sanding or using the D/A? Also, are there any types of D/A's I should avoid? Could buying a cheap one possibly mess everything up? Any recommendations for a relatively cheap one?


DA for stripping and preparing metal is fine. Block sanding is needed to get panels straight.

xmakeafistx wrote: These are mainly the questions I've been trying to figure out this week. I finally have 4 days off of work this weekend, so this job has to get done this weekend. (Satuday-Tuesday) I'm kind of going into a panic due to being overwhelmed with all of this information. I just want to avoid wasting 400+ dollars on materials due to something that could have been prevented by a bit of knowledge.

Thanks again guys, I'm sorry if these questions come off redundant or oversimplified. I'll come back with photos of the rust spots tomorrow.


I would suggest you take on this project one step at a time.
1. Analyze the condition of the car and make a plan of attack.
2. Strip, prime and then tackle rust repair and body work.
3. Prep

Four days, in a panic all sounds like a recipe for failure to me. :rolleyes:
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:41 am
chuck up heaps of pics and im sure we can all give you some good advice on each part of the project
krem



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:51 am
krem wrote:chuck up heaps of pics and im sure we can all give you some good advice on each part of the project
krem


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So, yesterday didn't go that great (expected I suppose). I checked out the rust on the hood and it now has a fairly big hole through it. Other than welding in sheet metal or replacing it, what would be the course of action you guys would take? I'm trying to find some POR15 to cover up the bare metal/rust that I do uncover but I don't think any of it is located locally. What products would you guys use to cover up small spots of bare metal? Preferably something you can pick up at the store. I don't plan to go bare metal on this car as I do not have any nearby access to any GOOD etch primer (that I'm aware of). Also, if I expose bare metal on the dents (so I can put in body filler), will it be fine if I just put the body filler in? It doesn't need any kind of etch?

Yesterday I removed all of the panels (fenders, bumpers, skirts, hood, trunk, seals), and today I plan on attempting to fix up the hood and sand down the rest of the car/panels to factory primer. I'm also going to attempt sandblasting the rust on the trunk, which hopefully won't go the same way the hood went.

Thanks again guys for the help, I'm kind of coming across issues as I go but I suppose I can only learn from them and try to fix them.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:53 am
Looks like you have a bit of repair work to do before you even think about paint.

Those rust areas in the bootlid will go the same way as the bonnet and need to be repaired first. That means filling with metal. Mesh and bog would be only a short term, cosmetic repair - not recommended in those areas where there could be more rust that you can't see bubbling the surface - yet.

For small areas any half decent etch primer will be fine. Don't bog over etch, apply straight to the bare metal, unless you use an epoxy primer.
Chris

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:54 pm
I have used the FP410 primer and the FC720 clear. Both are good/decent products. Not the best, but definitely not the worst. The clear is somewhat tricky to spray, but not impossible. Just takes a little dialing in your gun to get it to spray nice.

The project will most likely take longer than expected, so I would plan on using epoxy primer on any of the bare metal areas to seal the metal while you work on the other areas. You can use epoxy or the Tamco DTM primer sold here. You can also buy auto paint locally at most auto parts stores. Also check the phone books for "autobody supplies".

When you have all of the metal repaired, prepped, primed, etc. I would sand the rest of the body down to mostly original primer and original paint. Use a sanding block (long and short blocks) and P180. Use at least 1 "guide coat" (light mist of primer) to see if you have any waves in the body while sanding. Fix any areas that need attention.
After you get all of the body sanded, then you can shoot it with 2 - 3 coats of the FP410 primer to get it all into 1 substrate. Sand it with P600 and shoot your metallic color.
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