Quick question about the Tamco DTM primer sold on autobody101.com. Is it a "do-all" primer? Does it take the place of an etching ,epoxy primer, and high build primer?

I have some bare metal I need to shoot, and I hate having to buy 3 different primers for 1 job.

Great question. Here's my opinion.

Epoxy has it's place, and it's hard to argue against the fact that it does a great job of providing a waterproof seal with high adhesion, to bare metal. If I am working on a project where I strip a lot of metal bare and the project is going to sit for a long time then epoxy is the way to go.

However I believe it has been oversold as the holy grail for DIYers. Here are some facts to back up my statement:

1. Tell me how many OEM factory paint jobs use epoxy as part of their metal prep? Answer: zero.

2. Tell me how many collision shops use epoxy as part of their standard repair procedure? Answer: I have no idea but I'd be very surprised to find any productions shop using it. Reasons are cost and time. Might also be warranty issues but I'm honestly not sure about that.

3. I've seen a fair number of people having issues with epoxy. "it laid down with a lot of texture", "it has pinholes", "it crinkled", etc. Bottom line is that it is a reactive chemical and doesn't simply apply itself.

4. It provides very little build quality and it generally does not sand well.

Now if you are shaking your head at this look back at what I said above. If I have a bare-metal project and I want to protect it for a long restoration, then I am shooting epoxy, no question about it. So I am not saying it is a bad idea -- just that I see guys here repairing a fender or doing an all-over on top of old clear coat with some areas of exposed metal -- and shooting epoxy -- I wonder why they are doing that.

I personally like to keep the stack of products on the car to a minimum. To your point, why do I need to buy different products and why do I have to have all of those chemicals layered in my project?

At this point someone is going to say "what about primer shrinking". Well, if your primer is shrinking and exposing sanding scratches (or worse) then you will have that issue and may even be amplified if you shoot primer over epoxy. My answer is to use a high quality primer (like Tamco!) that does not shrink, and to make sure you are observing flash times.

Forget 'etching' for a minute -- both epoxy and DTM primes are "direct to metal", etching primer is just a version of DTM. Personally I don't like the idea of having acid inside my paint so I stay away from etch primer but that's just me.

So bottom line: long project, lots of bare metal: use epoxy then do your 2K primer (which can be a DTM like Tamco) on top of that. Shorter term project, kept inside with no exposure to contaminants: just shoot the DTM which also gives high build and sands effortlessly.

My son had 12 cars here at home this summer from bumper repairs to nearly complete repaints including welded in panels, etc. - didn't crack open the can of epoxy once.

If you are working inside, where a base coat will be sprayed within a day or 2, is epoxy still a better choice?

I was under the impression epoxy is a far superior primer because its more durable and dries harder.

Actually, cured epoxy is more flexible than 2K primer. Durable? I'd say that's correct since it is an epoxy (think "glue"). Is that enough of a reason to use it on a project like you describe...again my opinion is "no".

I could say 2K DTM primer is "far superior" because it has high build qualities and sands easily - but that wouldn't be fair because that's its purpose. Epoxy has a purpose as well and I believe that to be as a good base for undercoating, on frames, etc. and like I said before on a long term project dealing with bare metal.

By the way this is *not* about selling anything because if you use epoxy I'm going to assume you'll make the wise decision and put Tamco 2K primer over it. Also, Tamco sells an excellent epoxy I can get if you are interested (and will be installing in the catalog here, soon).

I'm just trying to target the right products for the job at hand and avoid (a) extra cost and (b) extra unneeded complexity.

Thanks for the help.

I am interested but probably not until Spring, I live in CT and I don't do much painting from October until April.

For now I ordered the Tamco DTM gallon kit from your store it was by far the cheapest price for a DTM primer I could find.

ok cool and thank you (I am not always good at connecting store customer names with userids here and don't go out of my way to try to figure that out unless someone tells me ) - I'd be very interested in hearing your opinion of it once you use it.

It's almost a shame that this primer is priced so low, I personally think some people have a "perceived value" hangup and unless the product is expensive it must not be good. We've certainly seen our share of small brands here that turn out excellent products...

Will do, I based my purchase on the fact that I couldn't find any poor reviews on it. The fact that the site offers it at the lowest cost with free shipping didn't hurt either.

Don't let the cost fool you, it is great primer! A certain popular off-brand of epoxy primer was once a low priced product, but now that it is so popular, the price has risen. I love using the Tamco DTM because it is a true DTM primer, not requiring another undercoat for a complete paint job. It has a higher build than a typical "high build" primer - less coats needed. It also sands nicely, both wet and dry. I'm sure you will like it!

I also use Kirker urethane paint. Its a low priced product, but I find that it works well and saves me money. I won't knock a product because of its cost. If the product doesn't perform, then you know that you wasted money trying to pinch a penny.

chris wrote:I personally like to keep the stack of products on the car to a minimum. To your point, why do I need to buy different products and why do I have to have all of those chemicals layered in my project?

- this right here... I would wager that most of us don't need an epoxy. I am a basic newbie with spraying paint, but not with prepping (panels, sanding, cleaning, etc). At the old restoration shop I worked at years ago the deal was to hit a car with epoxy as soon as it was blasted/bare metal. But then you had the next coat of primer, sealer, etc. And God forbid if you sanded through to the bare metal again for some reason... now what! break out the epoxy again and build up your layers.

me? I am staying with DTM 2K primer surface and I bought the Tamco product for that purpose. With what you are describing, you are good with DTM for your first coat on bare metal.

I don't know if it is a placebo effect of the good reviews, or if it is just that good, but this primer goes on VERY smooth.

I am accustomed to spraying Kirker 2K high build and Valspar tractor primer (I know it is not even in the same league as catalyst paints), but neither has ever gone on so smooth.

I am even shooting it through a harbor freight gun the purple with the gold knobs, and it is going on extremely easy with good coverage.

Now lets see how durable it is