High Build Primer vs Filler

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:21 pm
Restoring a 65 Mustang Fastback. Have been researching what the different camps have been recommending in such areas as epoxy primer, filler before primer vs filler on top of primer, etc. Car has been media blasted and I decided to prime car with House of Kolor KD3001 direct to substrate, high build primer. My question is whether or not high build primer can be used as a total replacement of filler? Thanks.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:35 am
Filler should never be put over 2K primer, aside from very tiny "nick fill" type of repairs. (edit - reread what you said, and yes filler over epoxy primer is fine).

High build primer, you are taking about "mils" of build (2-3 thousandths of an inch). Body filler you are talking about 1/8" to 1/4". If the panel has a dent, filler is used -- you'd never try to use high build primer for that. Note that there is an "in between" product, spray fillers -- which are polyester based and provide significantly more build than a 2K high build primer.

Check out the product tech sheets for the products you are considering - you can get a lot of info about the intended purpose and film thickness from those tech sheets.



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:45 pm
Thanks Chris for the reply. The p-sheet of the House of Kolor KD3001 primer describes itself as an epoxy hybrid primer that can be direct to substrate and depending on the ratio of reducer can be high build, medium build, or a sealer. The panels which are either new aftermarket, oem, or patched were primed with high build. I don't expect high build primer to fill dents. My intention is to fix with metalwork and not via the skim coating of filler on the whole car which I see a lot on the car shows and some instructional DVD's.



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:44 pm
2K is mostly used for the sanding scratches you leave in the filler after smoothing the dent out.180 grit sanding is about what most good primers will fill.



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:01 pm
You would have been better off to put epoxy on your mustang.You could have sprayed epoxy on just to seal it off and do your bodywork on top or take it down to bare metal where you need filler work done.IMO I don't really care for the hybrid products,they are ok in a collision shop for quickies but not for resto.Just my opinion......

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:34 am
Just my opinion , but I used HOK 2000 and 3000 for a total restoration repaint and thought it was great. It is the only RECOMMENDED DTM epoxy HOK supports. I can't understand why it would be "used in a production shop" aside from the fact that it is sand-able and would save time. I feel it is a top notch product that produces excellent results and is great to work with. I have no idea why HOK would use it under EXPENSIVE custom paint (candy etc.) if it was not good stuff. Just remember that there are still folks out there who load their guns from the front and want to crank their cars from the front! Mel



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:16 pm
My mistake,I misread and thought the OP was asking about DTM urethane primer.I still don't see the point of using epoxy for corrosion protection and blocking but I know you can use it that way if you want.To each his own.....



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:25 pm
I was just browing through this section reading and can share some thoughts on this.

Initially I got to thinking spray fillers nice for extreme body work situations like multiple small dent filling and then using 2k after that. I have heard people using the spray filler and then sealer on top but contributes to paint failure.
I have used both 2k and filler in different brands and can say the best 2k primer out there is your Matrix brand 2k and PPG.

As far as spray filler Evercoat makes great products. If used in the right steps could do well but for some intermixing in the wrong combinations will cause issues in the future.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 10:46 pm
Thank you all for for your insight! I can see how those that have extensive background will have the experience to pick & choose what works best for them. For me, this will be my first and last car that I will paint. With that said, I picked HOK and followed the tech sheets to the T which like every manufacturer recommends staying within the family of products for all stages. I realize that the product I'm using would be considered a hybrid by most but what appealed to me was that the same primer could serve as the dtm primer, high build, & sealer. I am determined to use as little filler and thus the original question of whether it was realistic to expect high build primer to replace filler. Again, thank you all for your input.



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:01 am
eclecticdriver wrote: I am determined to use as little filler and thus the original question of whether it was realistic to expect high build primer to replace filler. Again, thank you all for your input.

There is nothing wrong with correct use of a quality filler. Primer is not to be used as a replacement or crutch for improper metalwork or filler practices. Panel straightness is achieved by using body filler and blocking it correctly. Then build primer is shot and blocked to eliminate minor imperfections. How many blocking sessions is determined by how straight you want your car. Some use poly primers followed by a 2K primer to achieve a show finish with zero imperfections. Examine and compare a dozen black cars and you'll see what I mean, or and other color for that matter. The straight ones are in the minority. I've had to redo cars done by other people because they failed to block a car properly. Money they threw into the wind.
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