I really need some help with this repair.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:04 am
Invisible Hand wrote:
badsix wrote:bang out the dents as your going to do. but I think your going to run into a problem with stretched metal after you get it flattened out, what is called oil canning. you may need to shrink some areas. around here you can get a spray in bed liner done for about 300.00 that's a long wide box. your about half that size and if you have it all prepped it shouldn't cost that much, in your case it would be money well spent.
Jay D.


Thanks for the advice! You're correct regarding the stretching metal. The area I've started to work on is stretched. Metal shrinking isn't too difficult though.

Regarding the bed liner. The interior (floors, foot wells, transmission tunnel, etc) is a lot more difficult to prep and coat than a regular bed. I'm assuming this is why it's more expensive. I'm also doing a layer of a product called Al's HNR (heat and noise reducer) before the bed liner, and tinting the bedliner with pigment to match my tan interior. All said and done I'm sure I won't be saving any money. But I'll know it'll be done exactly how I want it (except for the banged up rear hahaha).

Any advice on a body filler that can take some abuse and not crack? I'm trying to find something that can flex a bit like seem sealer.

Thanks again!

-Jared

great sounds like you know what your doing . and as 68 said most any filler should work. i would question the Eastwood rattle can epoxy, though I have never used it. remember this is the foundation for everything you do from then on, if it fails everything fails. i'm not trying to scare you, but i'm just not confident with rattle can anything when i'm going to spend a lot of money on products to go on top of it. if you were to use like DP or ********** epoxy then I would say your good to go as they are proven products that work .
Jay D.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:58 am
badsix wrote:
Invisible Hand wrote:
badsix wrote:bang out the dents as your going to do. but I think your going to run into a problem with stretched metal after you get it flattened out, what is called oil canning. you may need to shrink some areas. around here you can get a spray in bed liner done for about 300.00 that's a long wide box. your about half that size and if you have it all prepped it shouldn't cost that much, in your case it would be money well spent.
Jay D.


Thanks for the advice! You're correct regarding the stretching metal. The area I've started to work on is stretched. Metal shrinking isn't too difficult though.

Regarding the bed liner. The interior (floors, foot wells, transmission tunnel, etc) is a lot more difficult to prep and coat than a regular bed. I'm assuming this is why it's more expensive. I'm also doing a layer of a product called Al's HNR (heat and noise reducer) before the bed liner, and tinting the bedliner with pigment to match my tan interior. All said and done I'm sure I won't be saving any money. But I'll know it'll be done exactly how I want it (except for the banged up rear hahaha).

Any advice on a body filler that can take some abuse and not crack? I'm trying to find something that can flex a bit like seem sealer.

Thanks again!

-Jared

great sounds like you know what your doing . and as 68 said most any filler should work. i would question the Eastwood rattle can epoxy, though I have never used it. remember this is the foundation for everything you do from then on, if it fails everything fails. i'm not trying to scare you, but i'm just not confident with rattle can anything when i'm going to spend a lot of money on products to go on top of it. if you were to use like DP or ********** epoxy then I would say your good to go as they are proven products that work .
Jay D.


Thanks for the advice. The spray can is a little different. It has a tab you pull that mixes the 2 parts. My compressor setup is a month out so I don't have a way of spraying anything.

Do you think it's ok to apply the filler directly to the metal in this case? I'm worried about the filler not completely filling the little divots, creating a spot for moisture build up.

I read this regarding epoxy before filler. It looks like he put an end to the debate regarding adhesion.

http://www.autobodystore.com/filler_&_epoxy.shtml
Last edited by Invisible Hand on Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:37 pm
Theirs other tests that counterdict . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yA8q4K-_Bo This is one reason I'm going to use the ********** when the kirker I have is used up. Just be careful when using the metal prep.



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:25 pm
jammer wrote:Theirs other tests that counterdict . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yA8q4K-_Bo This is one reason I'm going to use the ********** when the kirker I have is used up. Just be careful when using the metal prep.


Looks good.

Can you expand on what you mean by being careful with the metal prep?

Thanks!

-Jared

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:22 pm
He is talking about all the "products" that people are being sold to put on metal prior to painting. Many of them claim to just put their product on and let it dry and it will convert the rust and "prep" the metal for painting. This claim has been proven to be false a few times. Once by myself when painting the roof on my R/T. I followed the directions on the metal prep bottle, applied my top coats and when buffing I could see a blister form and then go back down. This bothered me so I broke the blister open and all the paint came off right to the metal prep. Had to strip the roof, epoxy primer and then repaint.

These products can be useful and I still use them but have learned that you have to re-apply (reactivate) them and wash them off thoroughly while wet. I use a red scotchbrite pad, dish soap and water and scrub every square inch to get the residue off the metal that I plan to paint.

That video shows how that improper use of Metal Prep, Ospho, Phosphoric acid, or any other type of rust converter can cause major problems with adhesion. Like Jay said, this is the foundation of your paint job so you want maximum adhesion in a compatible product for your subsequent coats.

It also explains why I am sold on ********** epoxy primer. Not saying there aren't others out there that compare to it but I'll wait to see videos of their products subjected to the same tests before switching. :wink:
1968 Coronet R/T


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:35 pm
Invisible Hand wrote: I read this regarding epoxy before filler. It looks like he put an end to the debate regarding adhesion.

http://www.autobodystore.com/filler_&_epoxy.shtml

It depends on who you talk to. How old is it and to what products and prep is he referring? That thread in inconclusive and leaves out facts. No mention of OEM requirements for epoxy under filler for warranty work requiring corrosion protection, and no mention of new fillers with advanced adhesion properties. I've been in this business professionally for decades and never had a failure with filler over epoxy or bare metal; neither have other restoration shops. Put something on the internet and novices many times think it's the be all and end all.

Once you stabilize the stretched out mess you can use shortstrand; or source out a replacement floor and buttweld it in.
Last edited by ScottB on Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:39 pm
I do know if a car panel ever got abused even half what the quy did a body man would be stripping where it was pounded to be sure all was good. Major over kill. I"m glad it works that well.



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:42 pm
'68 Coronet R/T wrote:It also explains why I am sold on ********** epoxy primer. Not saying there aren't others out there that compare to it but I'll wait to see videos of their products subjected to the same tests before switching. :wink:


I use ********** and different brands with no issues. R-M EP Series is by no means inferior to **********, nor are others. U-Tech hardly gets any mention on this site at all. PPG has excellent epoxy in their commercial coatings line but most don't know about it, especially those with limited involvement in the industry. Plenty of restoration shops who epoxies other than ********** and have no failures long before videos were popular.

Properly neutralize phosphoric acid and paint adhesion is not an issue. Do not use acids or conversion coatings if a TDS states not to.
Last edited by ScottB on Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:54 pm
Sounds like I need to go the ********** route. I won't have a compressor for another month or so. Would y'all agree that epoxy should be applied before the filler in my case? I don't want to do all this work only to have rust develop.

I also have the issue of currently having bare metal in an unheated garage. It's only a matter of time before rust starts developing in these little punch marks and even with a wire brush I won't be able to get it all.

My buddy really screwed me on this one.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:15 pm
ScottB wrote:
'68 Coronet R/T wrote:It also explains why I am sold on ********** epoxy primer. Not saying there aren't others out there that compare to it but I'll wait to see videos of their products subjected to the same tests before switching. :wink:


I use ********** and different brands with no issues. R-M EP Series is by no means inferior to **********, nor are others. U-Tech hardly gets any mention on this site at all. PPG has excellent epoxy in their commercial coatings line but most don't know about it, especially those with limited involvement in the industry. Plenty of restoration shops who epoxies other than ********** and have no failures long before videos were popular.

Properly neutralize phosphoric acid and paint adhesion is not an issue. Do not use acids or conversion coatings if a TDS states not to.


I used RM and PPG epoxy primers before and I made it clear that I wasn't saying there were not others out there that were comparable.
However when we compare products pricing needs to be in the equation and PPG and RM are both more money.
Haven't used the U-tech but then I am slow trying different products.
1968 Coronet R/T


ACTS 16:31
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