Hello it's been awhile since I've been on here. Actually it's been awhile since I've painted a car.

I've got several old cars including a 1968 Ford Fairlane 500, a 1980 Fiat Spider, a 1987 Yugo and my current project is an East German 1981 Trabant I imported from Hungary about three years ago.



More photos if anybody is interested:

http://s222.photobucket.com/user/turbof ... 0562299135

The car is somewhat constructed like a Corvette. It has fiberglass body panels made of cotten and/or wool combined with a resin that is heat treated/pressed and held to a steel chassis with screws and pop rivets.

I've touched up allot of the gouge marks and buffed it but the main problem is there is a box section that runs under the doors that needs replacing. I can get NOS box sections but I'd like to know if 3M makes an adhesive that is as strong as welding. I can weld thick metal but I'm not very good at welding sheet metal. I tend to burn holes through it on the lowest setting and I can't really afford to pay anybody to do it for me.

This section is spot welded to the car. I assume the method of replicating a spot weld is to drill a hole in the panel and fill in the hole with a wire welder?

Here is what I am up against:

http://s222.photobucket.com/user/turbof ... 8131243411

Here is the new box section:



it's pieces 450 and 451:



The sections in the trunk and the wheel wells I plan on treating with Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator and fiberglassing. Which I have done many times in the past with no ill effects. The car is stored in a garage when not driven and sees no road salt.

I have used a product by 3M called structure adhesive which works really well. I once "glued" a bracket to the underside of my Yugo for an electric fuelpump. When I changed my design, the bracket no longer serves a purpose and I can't remove it!

Here is a bracket I made out of 2 dissimiliar metals for a Satellite radio for my Subaru, of course this is not structural.:

http://s222.photobucket.com/user/turbof ... sort=6&o=6

I've also used 3M Urethane to glue the door windows into the tracks on my 68 Ford and that stuff has held up great for over 10 years when RTV wouldn't.

What I'd like to do is grind out the box section and smooth down the metal and coat all of the metal with Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator. Then use something that takes awhile to set up to the lips of the box section and secure it to underside of the car. Then use a floorjack and a piece of 2X4 to hold it in place and let it dry. If I try to weld after appling the Eastwood's stuff I'm afraid it will just burn off.

I can't remember how long it takes the 3M structure adhesive to cure. These box sections are about 3 feet long and I believe have a 1/2" lip. So preferably something I can work with for at least 30 minutes to an hour before it starts to set up. Since I'll have to mix up quite a bit.

Would plain 3M urethane from a tube work just as well?

I hope my post doesn't sound "H.A." if you know what I mean.

Just looking for suggestions. Thanks!

Doing the spot welds shouldn't be too hard; I bet if you practice on scrap pieces you can figure it out. I can't really answer the adhesive question, and maybe I misread your post but I would not count on 3M adhesive working on parts that are coated with some sort of rust preventing coating. You'd need to follow the tech sheet on the adhesive and if it says bare metal then it needs to be bare metal.

Best bet is to call the 3M tech support line and ask them if their product will work for your application.

chris wrote:Doing the spot welds shouldn't be too hard; I bet if you practice on scrap pieces you can figure it out. I can't really answer the adhesive question, and maybe I misread your post but I would not count on 3M adhesive working on parts that are coated with some sort of rust preventing coating. You'd need to follow the tech sheet on the adhesive and if it says bare metal then it needs to be bare metal.

Best bet is to call the 3M tech support line and ask them if their product will work for your application.

I was just going to coat the undersides of the panels. The areas the adhesive will make contact with will be bare metal which is what the directions say to do.

I just wondered if it would be safe to use this stuff on a structual area.

I have had great success with the Lord Fusor products: http://www.lord.com/products-and-soluti ... s-adhesive

Used this in the past as well: http://www.proformproducts.com/en/produ ... -adhesive/

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:I have had great success with the Lord Fusor products: http://www.lord.com/products-and-soluti ... s-adhesive

Used this in the past as well: http://www.proformproducts.com/en/produ ... -adhesive/

I had seen that product (or one of their products) on a search. The video shows them removing a door pillar then applying the adhesive but then going back and re-spotwelding the door pillar. So I am confused. What's the point of applying the sealant if the panel is going to be spot welded back? I thought that was the reasoning behind the adhesive.

http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/lord-fu ... 15934.aspx

They make a bunch of products with all types of applications. I suggest you call for technical support no matter what brand you choose if you are unsure which will work for your application.
These guys want you to be happy with their products so they won't steer you wrong.

I have always gotten good tech. support from the people at Lord. When building kit cars I've had to bond many "unlike" materials together. I usually put about 10,000 miles or so on each of those cars and never had a panel or bonding failure. I'm sure they can help you figure it out. Personally, I think on something that is so thin that the adhesives won't be changing the metallurgy like those thin "hot" welds would, but again I didn't manufacture the car....

the metalbond adhesives are made for things like gluing entire quarter panels on and in some cases oem`s call for glue instead of welding because it is stronger and less chance of human error when replacing the part.

if I read your post correctly your question was if you can glue in those lower door pieces instead of welding them and the answer would be yes as long as you clamp the panels properly, prep them properly, and follow the tech sheet exactly.

turbofiat wrote:.......I just wondered if it would be safe to use this stuff on a structual area.

That metal support is similiar to the "hog troughs" used on Avantis. If it comes
loose the center of the frame will sag, which should give plenty of warning before
complete failure. Using adhesive might just give more structural strength than
would spot welds.....

I've known about this rust issue for some time. I've just been concentrating on working out the mechanical and electrical bugs.

What prompted all of this to begin with was when I support the entire car on jackstands below the jacking tubes in the hog trough (good name for it by the way), the doors are difficult to open and shut.

What really prompted me to look more into this was the other day I pulled the engine and transmission and had the front end of the car supported on jackstands under the front jacking tubes and once the driver's side door was open it would not shut.

So I asked some of the other Trabant guys if this was normal for this amount of flexing and they said no.

Here is what the skeleton looks like with the fiberglass body panels removed: