BeoBob wrote:Ummmmm..... The MFG told him the product had no chemical resistance. Are you arguing with the MFG?

Did you read the tech sheet? I'm not going to do the work for you, you should learn how to navigate a website if you are going to be in this business. http://us.ppgrefinish.com/PPG-Refinish/ ... lang=en-US

It seemed strange that the TDS says just what Scott said, but the lady on the tech line said something different, so I called again today.

This time a man answered and he looked everything up and read off the sheets he was looking at. The lady I talked to yesterday didn't seem to be looking at anything.
He said they do more testing on the commercial products than they do on the automotive lines, and the CRE epoxy primer is chemical resistant and he stated to what degree.

When I asked about chip resistance he quoted some test that showed a 6 for DPLF and 7 for CRE, so I asked about pencil hardness, and he said CRE is the same as DPLF. So the lady was right about that----slightly more chip resistance than DPLF.

That doesn't bode well with me compared to ********** epoxy which is slow to cure, but when it does cure its not coming off very easily and is still flexible. DPLF is also flexible, but it is easy to remove with razor blade, sand paper, or even lacquer thinner. Tamco epoxy is also very good, and both are reasonably priced and offer free shipping. Both have tech lines with techs that can answer any question without looking up anything---they know the products.

I would not use DPLF if it was free. VP 2050 has greater chip resistance because it is formulated differently than CRE. I've used ********** and had no issues with it. If you've never used CRE or 2050 as a build primer, you have no way to evaluate why those who do use it rarely use traditional 2K primers or epoxies. I've used gallons of Tamco DTM primer, but CRE and 2050 blows it out of the water. Totally different animals. Tamco DTM is fine, but not even close to CRE or 2050.

I think VP-2050 is a 'hybrid' epoxy and CRE is a traditional epoxy (if I'm not mistaken).

I hereby object to comparing any epoxy (including Tamco's epoxy) to Tamco 2K DTM primer.

If you love CRE and it works for you that's great. PPG is a good company and they make excellent products. You guys are splitting hairs on the chip resistance and chemical resistance points.

Seriously, when is the last time you have seen a car (that was prepped and painted properly) suffer from base delamination and/or adhesion based chipping failure, painted in a year that starts with the number '2'?

chris wrote:I think VP-2050 is a 'hybrid' epoxy and CRE is a traditional epoxy (if I'm not mistaken).

I hereby object to comparing any epoxy (including Tamco's epoxy) to Tamco 2K DTM primer.

If you love CRE and it works for you that's great. PPG is a good company and they make excellent products. You guys are splitting hairs on the chip resistance and chemical resistance points.

Seriously, when is the last time you have seen a car (that was prepped and painted properly) suffer from base delamination and/or adhesion based chipping failure, painted in a year that starts with the number '2'?

Chris,
I did not bring up chip resistance and chemical resistance, I submitted additional info. Most on websites do not own resto or collision shops. They are hobbyists who are not exposed to this industry on a daily basis, and have not done hundreds of jobs in their career, or own or are still exposed to cars they restored decades ago.. Nor do they have reps, those that work at training centers and other professionals to use as assets to acquire knowledge.
Love CRE or 2050? Nope. But they offer properties not mentioned on many sites or even other pros unless they are exposed to the industry on a wider level.
Have you read the TDS for 2050? Have you used it? PPG refers to 2050 as a DTM. It is totally different than Tamco's DTM, or any DTM I've used. I have no problems with Tamco primer for certain jobs, but other products offer greater advantages in certain applications. CRE is not a traditional epoxy. It is not like the old DP, nothing like DPLF, R-M EP , **********, Transtar, etc .
Open a can or CRE and 2050 and activator and you would not be able to tell the difference. Read the chem differences or request an inquiry from the lab, which can be done but most don't know it. I'm providing data, how one chooses to run their hobby or business is free will.

You made me go off and read the SDS for these.

You are using epoxy products. Both VP2050 and CRE are epoxy, first ingredient on the CAS list. So no surprise by the "DTM" designation.

Interesting that PPG tries to hide the fact that VP2050 is an epoxy, they don't mention it on the website, in their brochures, the tech sheet, or on the product label. I wonder why. The only hints are that filler is allowed over it, and it has a 4-day coating window.

I think your argument is that they are such great primers that they "blow away" all other epoxies and/or 2K urethane primers out there?

If that's the assertion, then I understand but it's a sweeping generalization.

I agree with the point that folks should do research and try products to get comfortable with what they like, especially if running a busy restoration business like you are.

chris wrote:You made me go off and read the SDS for these.

You are using epoxy products. Both VP2050 and CRE are epoxy, first ingredient on the CAS list. So no surprise by the "DTM" designation.

Interesting that PPG tries to hide the fact that VP2050 is an epoxy, they don't mention it on the website, in their brochures, the tech sheet, or on the product label. I wonder why. The only hints are that filler is allowed over it, and it has a 4-day coating window.

I think your argument is that they are such great primers that they "blow away" all other epoxies and/or 2K urethane primers out there?

If that's the assertion, then I understand but it's a sweeping generalization.

I agree with the point that folks should do research and try products to get comfortable with what they like, especially if running a busy restoration business like you are.

In a lighter way let me rephrase if the expression I used was too aggressive and a sweeping generalization for some readers( blows it out of the water). CRE and 2050 possess properties that other DTMs, epoxies, and traditional 2K primers do not, and I stock numerous ones depending on job application. These properties allow CRE and 2050 to outperform other products in a particular procedure. There is nothing wrong with other DTMs, build primers, epoxies in a given situation. They just are not designed to do what CRE and 2050 are capable of doing. The cost is minimal, buy some and try it. Or call your rep and get some for free to test. Then report back with what was liked or disliked about it. Provided one was aware of all characteristics and how the products can be used with ease.

chris wrote:Interesting that PPG tries to hide the fact that VP2050 is an epoxy, they don't mention it on the website, in their brochures, the tech sheet, or on the product label. I wonder why. The only hints are that filler is allowed over it, and it has a 4-day coating window.

its all over the tech sheet
http://us.ppgrefinish.com/getattachment ... 3.pdf.aspx

Dave I am not looking to prolong this but seriously I could not find the word "epoxy" anywhere in that VP2050 tech sheet. Maybe I'm missing it...

ok sorry buddy, didnt realize it had to say Epoxy