a few questions before attempting to paint a qtr panel

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:35 pm
Hello guys and gals. I am so happy to find this forum as it looks like there are some really good guys/gals out there helping us newbies getting started when it comes to DIY painting.

Ive read and read about how to paint and the steps involved so i have a good understanding of the process but i got a little confused when i went to buy all the supplies at a local auto body store. I need to paint a qtr panel and a door on my white 1992 mustang. I have the qtr panel stripped to bare metal on the outer surface and the door will be prepped next (there a crease on the edge so i'm gonna attempt to bend it out, hammer the high spots down and fill in any lower spots with filler)

I read a lot about using epoxy on bare metal so I bought 1 qt of Shop line White epoxy, 1 qt of Shop Line reducer, Shop line hardner 1 pint, 1 qt of white paint, 1 qt of clear, and 1 pint of hardner for the base coat. I also got some spray can 2 in 1 primer that is supposed to be good to use for light filler.

Here is where i got confused, The guy at the store claims this is the process. Spray can the body filler first (the qtr panel had a couple low spots), then spray the epoxy, then spray base and clear. I asked the guy aren't you supposed to spray another type of primer on the epoxy and then sand to get ready for base coat. He said Nope, I said oh, you can sand the epoxy and he said "you don't sand the epoxy primer." I said thats weird I thought you need to sand to have it prepped ready so that gives it the nice finish" He said nope, you spray the base and then the clear. I then said oh is that when you go back and wet sand the clear. And he said I wouldn't.


So I want to do this correctly. Tell me this guy was wrong and I need to sand at least 400 grit on the panels to give it a uniform smooth look? So do I need to spray another primer on top of the epoxy, then sand?

Also, whats the best way to paint the under side of the fender? I figured lightly sand 320 grit and just primer it. The edges of the fender where it connects to the front bumper are hard to get to bare metal. Do i just use sand paper and bust my hands getting it down to bare metal Ill try to upload pics of the fender. Last question the fender has been sitting outside in my courtyard bare metal. Whats the best way to clean it up so theres no chance of rust? Thanks again.

Here is the list of what i have so far, if you see anything i'm missing please let me know. The only thing i can think of is a type of cleaner to use on the panels before painting and more primer if needed.

Transtar 2 in 1 spray primer
Shop line JP371 Epoxy primer
Shop line JR506 Reducer
Shop line JH3770 Hardner
Base Coat Vibrant White
Shop Line JH6680 hardner
Strainers
Measuring cups,
1 small 3m sanding block (think i need a bigger one?
3m 320 grit sand paper
3m 400 grit sand paper
Tack Rags
Spray gun (cheap HF one for primer, thinking of a FLG5 for the base and clear
inline regulator
Compressor
Respirator


Thanks in advance



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:42 am
ALWAYS READ YOUR TDS (TECHNICAL DATA SHEETS) They explain how to MIX & USE the product,ALSO What can be to used under the product AND what can be to used OVER the product!
Below is just your epoxy and Rattle can Primer TDS YOU look up the rest your TDS sheets on the internet for your other products you've listed you want to use.
NEVER EVER TRUST A SALESMEN READ YOUR TDS!

I also suggest reading the Sticky "What Grit sandpaper to use". :wink:


© 2014 PPG Industries http://www.ppgrefinish.com SL37x 2/14
JP37x Series Epoxy Primers
JP37x Series Epoxy Primer
Primer
JP371 Epoxy Primer-White
JP375 Epoxy Primer-Gray
JP377 Epoxy Primer-Black
Catalyst
JH3770 Epoxy Primer Hardener
Thinner
Acetone (optional)



Compatible Surfaces
Cleaned, sanded, bare or primed steel, galvanized and
aluminum. Sanded and cleaned body filler, cured, cleaned
and sanded OEM and refinish coatings
:goodpost:

JP37x Series Epoxy Primers may be applied over: :wink:
JP202 2K Primer Surfacer
JP209 Gray Polyester Primer/ Filler
JP233 1K Acrylic Primer
JP285 2K Urethane Surfacer
JP301 Plastic Adhesion Promoter
:goodpost:

JP37x Series Epoxy Primers may be overcoated with: :wink:
JP202 2K Primer Surfacer
JP209 Gray Polyester Primer/Filler
JP233 1K Acrylic Primer
JP285 2K Urethane Surfacer
JP33x 2K Urethane Sealer
JB Acrylic Basecoat
JBP Acrylic Urethane Basecoat
JE Acrylic Enamel
JE Acrylic Enamel / Activated
JAU Direct Gloss Acrylic Urethane
:goodpost:

Preparation
Surface cleaning
JX101 Wax and Grease Remover, JX992 Plastic Cleaner,
SXA330 Wax and Grease Remover, SWX350 H2O-So-
Clean.
:goodpost:
Sanding
120 - 180 grit on bare metal
220 - 320 grit on old finishes, body filler
:goodpost:

Mixing
Ratios
JP37x JH3770 *Acetone
2 : 1 : up to ½ part *Optional
Note: Allow a 15 minute induction period before applying.
Potlife 8 hours at 70ºF (21ºC)
Additives None
:goodpost:
Application
Coats
1 or 2 coats
:goodpost:

Air pressure
HVLP 8 - 10 psi at the air cap
Conventional 45 - 50 psi at the gun
:goodpost:
Gun setup
1.3 - 1.6 mm or equivalent
:goodpost:

Properties
VOC
Applied
Less Exempts (2:1)
JP371 4.53 lbs./gal (551gm/L)
JP375 4.54 lbs./gal (539gm/L)
JP377 4.54 lbs./gal (539gm/L)
Applied (2:1) + up to ½ part acetone
4.53 - 4,54 lbs./gal (543 - 544gm/L)
Dry Film build per coat
Applied (2:1) 1.0 mil
Square foot coverage at 1 mil
Applied (2:1) 577 sq. ft. / gal. @ 100% transfer

:wazzup:
Background JP37x Series Epoxy Primers are two-component, nonchrome :wazzup:
coatings designed to provide superior corrosion
protection and adhesion when applied over properly cleaned
and sanded bare metal, fiberglass and painted surfaces. :wink:

JP37x Series Epoxies are available in gray, white or black.
Dry Times
Air dry
1 coat 15 minutes at 70ºF (21ºC)
2 coats 30 minutes at 70ºF (21ºC)
Tape Time: Minimum 6 Hours
JP37X Series Epoxy Primers must be scuffed and reapplied
if allowed to stand more than 3 days.
Clean Up
Clean spray guns, gun cups, storage pots thoroughly with
JR Reducer, JT501 General Purpose Solvents or other
appropriate clean up solvent after each use.
Follow EPA guidelines for proper storage and disposal of
solvent-borne waste paint.
© 2014 PPG Industries http://www.ppgrefinish.com SL37x 2/14
Shop-Line and H2O-So-Clean are trademarks of PPG Industries Ohio, Inc.
Limitations
:wazzup:
SHOP-LINE® products should not be combined with components of other product lines.
:wink: :goodpost: :wink: :goodpost: :wink: :goodpost:
Precautionary Information:
The contents of this package may have to be blended with other components before the product can be used. Before opening the
packages, be sure you understand the warning messages on the labels of all components, since the mixture will have the hazards of all its
parts.
:wink:

Spray equipment must be handled with due care and in accordance with manufacturer’s recommendations.
:wink:
Follow label directions for respirator use. Wear eye and skin protection. Observe all applicable precautions.
:wink:

Medical Response:
EMERGENCY MEDICAL OR SPILL CONTROL INFORMATION (412) 434-4515; IN CANADA (514) 645-1320.
Material Safety Data Sheet:
Material Data Safety Sheets for the PPG products mentioned in this publication are available through your PPG Shop-Line Distributor.
© 2014 PPG Industries http://www.ppgrefinish.com SL37x 2/14


******* :wink:

https://www.tat-co.com/Products/Repair/ ... n-1-Primer

TRANSTAR AUTOBODY TECHNOLOGIES • 2040 HEISERMAN DRIVE, BRIGHTON, MI 48114 • (800) 824-2843
FAX (800) 477-7923 • EMAIL: [email protected]
Technical Data Sheet
4603, 4613, 4623, 4633
2 in 1 Primer
2 in 1 Primers are a specialty coating designed for easy and convenient priming of metal and plastic parts. These primers help
prevent rust and seal out moisture, while providing a smooth base for topcoat application on metal substrates. 2 in 1 Primers
also have excellent flexibility and adhesion properties that enable them to be applied to flexible and rigid parts. 2 in 1 Primers
are fast drying, provide superior fill and build, and are easy to sand. They are compatible with virtually all automotive paints.

:realmad: SO THEY CLAIM ! WHERE IS THE LIST OF PRODUCTS? :realmad:


Rev 12/16
Substrate Substrate Substrate
Bare Steel P Raw Plastic - Rigid (SMC,
BMC) +
P Primer - Self-Etching P
Bare Galvanized P Raw Plastic - Flexible (ABD,
PPO) +
P Primer - 1K P
Bare Aluminum P Raw Plastic - Soft (PUR) + P Primer - 2K P
OEM E-Coat** P Plastic Part - Primed ++ P OEM Finish & Old Paint
Work - Reversible
Fiberglass/SMC
Unbroken Gel Coat
Body Filler P OEM Finish & Old Paint
Work - Non-Reversible
P
SUITABLE SUBSTRATES
MIXING
Mix Ratio: Ready to Spray
Pot Life: N/A
FLASH TIMES/DRY TIMES
Flash Time 5-10 minutes
Dry to Sand 15-20 minutes
SURFACE PREPARATION
Clean surface with SCAT 6311, Speedi SCAT 6321 or Aqua SCAT 2 1391/1394 and wipe completely dry. Sand substrate with 240 grit
paper and mask off repair area.
APPLICATION
Shake can well. Hold can upright 8 – 12 inches from surface to be primed. Apply 2 – 3 medium wet coats, allowing 5-10 minutes
of flash time between coats. Allow to dry for 15 – 20 minutes before sanding. Sand with 320-400 (dry) or 500-600 (wet) grit sandpaper
until a smooth surface is attained. Reclean with SCAT, wipe area with a tack cloth and apply top coat paint per manufacturers instructions.

:realmad:

(GOOD LUCK FINDING A 2K PRODUCT THAT LIKES 1K STUFF UNDER IT OR OVER IT) :pcorn:
(NOTICE IT DOES NOT LIST ANY COMPATIBLE PRODUCTS FOR USE FOR OVER-COATING LIKE THE EPOXY DOES? ) IF YOU USE THIS OVER YOUR EPOXY ITS LIKELY YOUR BASE COAT WILL EAT IT! ESPECIALLY IF YOU USE A HARDENER IN YOUR BASE COAT! IF IT DOESN'T IT WILL WHEN YOU CLEAR COAT ON IT! AS IN MOST CASES, CLEAR COAT USES A HARDENER.


** Aftermarket E-coat must be solvent tested with Transtar Urethane Grade Reducers 6700 or 6700-F Series in an inconspicuous spot before application
of new coating.
+ Due to the diverse nature of plastics, always test plastic substrate for acceptable adhesion. Adhesion promoter maybe required for proper adhesion.
++ Test pre‐primed panels with acetone or paint thinner. If coating fails, strip panel to bare plastic & follow SOP 251 for Raw Plastic.
PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS/REGULATORY
Color/Size: 20 oz Aero
Gray (4603), Black (4613), Red Oxide (4623), White (4633)
Shelf Life: 1 year
Approximate Coverage: 432 ft2/gal @ 1 mil Category: ABP - MIR <.95
LIMITATIONS & PRECAUTIONS
• This product provides adhesion & corrosion protection when used over noted (checked) substrates - when properly cleaned, sanded & applied.
• Visit http://www.tat-co.com to assure use of the most current instructions and TDS on this product.
• See website (www-tat-co.com) for this document in other languages. (Vea el web site para este documento en español. Voir le site web pour ce document
en français.)
• For use only by professional, trained painters. Not for sale to or use by the general public.
• Before use, read and follow all TDS, label and SDS precautions. :wink:
• All Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) can be found on the Transtar website at http://www.tat-co.com.

Do your self a favor loose the Rattle can and get a real 2K Primer compatible with your Epoxy and your Base coat, and Clear coat.

JP37x Series Epoxy Primers may be overcoated with: :wink:
JP202 2K Primer Surfacer
JP209 Gray Polyester Primer/Filler
JP233 1K Acrylic Primer
JP285 2K Urethane Surfacer
JP33x 2K Urethane Sealer
JB Acrylic Basecoat
JBP Acrylic Urethane Basecoat
JE Acrylic Enamel
JE Acrylic Enamel / Activated
JAU Direct Gloss Acrylic Urethane
Last edited by Doright on Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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Posts: 6735
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:10 pm
Location: OREGON COAST
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:57 pm
:goodpost: here's a few thing I can add sand your bare metal with 80 grit this will provide a good grip for your epoxy. any places that you will leave paint is ok just make sure its sanded and feather it out. make sure you clean the panels GOOD use wax and grease remover wipe on wipe off until clean. spray two good wet coats letting it flash between coats, make sure temps are above at least 65 deg. . you can apply your filler over the epoxy or under right to the bare metal. if you fill before the epoxy you can block sand the epoxy to get it close. if you fill after the epoxy you can spot spray the filler with a couple coats of epoxy then block. always use a guide coat. I would take the shaker can primer back and get a quart of 2part filler primer, that shaker can stuff is just about useless for what your doing. your counter guy wasn't totally wrong, you could use the epoxy only for the complete repair. its sometimes a little hard to sand but usually sands good, you need to watch the temp and cure times. you can also use it for a sealer, but check your teck sheet. have you got pictures, we like pictures.
Jay D.
they say my name is Jay



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Location: Pahrump NV.
Country:
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:36 pm
TDS says : ""SHOP-LINE® products should not be combined with components of other product lines.""

I am not a Brain surgeon or a Chemist but I am sure that also means not to be used mixed with other Manufactures sub par Products such as the Trans star Rattle can Primer even though Trans star TDS says it is compatible with other products PPG line already said NO! who You gonna trust? For me it would be with what I am putting down first and going up from there reading each TDS finding out what is compatible with what over what.
Not saying Trans star doesn't have some good stuff they do But here again need to start and finish with there products and there recommendations.

Notice too the TDS said what grit Paper to use, how to mix it, How to reduce it, with what and how much and What size air gun Fluid tip range to use and What air pressure range to use or air cap pressure. Lots of good info in there and there was more.

Additional reading for you before anything else:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16694
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1945
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14772
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17445
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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Posts: 6735
Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 7:10 pm
Location: OREGON COAST
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:40 pm
:goodpost: armed with all this information the paint should just about jump right from the can onto the car and you'll be done. :rotfl:
Jay D.
they say my name is Jay

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:00 pm
This is what I'd do:

1) Sand the bare metal panel with 80 grit on a DA to create some tooth. Do the same to a painted panel as long as it is a stable coating and compatible. If not strip, it to bare metal also.

2) Next apply a couple coats of epoxy primer to protect the metal from corrosion.

3) Next apply filler to any obvious low spots with your choice of quality body filler and block it with 80 grit followed by 180 grit (example of good body filler: Evercoat Rage). Get this as close to perfect as possible.

4) Next apply 1 to 2 full coats of sprayable body filler (AKA polyester primer). This is to fill any subtle (paper thin) low spots. Block with 180 grit and use a guide coat. If any low spots are found that the polyester primer can't fill, touch them up with the body filler and block to 180 grit

5) Once above is as perfect as possible, apply 1 to 2 full coats of urethane primer. This seals the porous products below. Block the urethane primer with 180, then 320, then finally 400. (Note, the final grit should be whatever the paint being applied calls for, usually 400 to 600 grit.

6) At this point if you are sure the panels are perfect and ready for paint, then apply however many coats of base are needed for full coverage. Also, some guys apply a seal coat (usually a reduced epoxy primer) just prior to applying the base. The seal coat is not always necessary but doesn't hurt and can help when needed.

7) Next apply 2 to 3 coats of clear or whatever is recommended by your paint manufacturer.

Hope that helps

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:07 pm
wth... how do you guys have time to type all of that lol
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:14 pm
Lenny B wrote:This is what I'd do:

1) Sand the bare metal panel with 80 grit on a DA to create some tooth. Do the same to a painted panel as long as it is a stable coating and compatible. If not strip, it to bare metal also.

2) Next apply a couple coats of epoxy primer to protect the metal from corrosion.

3) Next apply filler to any obvious low spots with your choice of quality body filler and block it with 80 grit followed by 180 grit (example of good body filler: Evercoat Rage). Get this as close to perfect as possible.

4) Next apply 1 to 2 full coats of sprayable body filler (AKA polyester primer). This is to fill any subtle (paper thin) low spots. Block with 180 grit and use a guide coat. If any low spots are found that the polyester primer can't fill, touch them up with the body filler and block to 180 grit

5) Once above is as perfect as possible, apply 1 to 2 full coats of urethane primer. This seals the porous products below. Block the urethane primer with 180, then 320, then finally 400. (Note, the final grit should be whatever the paint being applied calls for, usually 400 to 600 grit.

6) At this point if you are sure the panels are perfect and ready for paint, then apply however many coats of base are needed for full coverage. Also, some guys apply a seal coat (usually a reduced epoxy primer) just prior to applying the base. The seal coat is not always necessary but doesn't hurt and can help when needed.

7) Next apply 2 to 3 coats of clear or whatever is recommended by your paint manufacturer.

Hope that helps


Do exactly this. The only thing I would add and it has been mentioned is the guide coat. While it may feel smooth and straight, it is not. You wont know until you guide coat it. I have been using rattle can spray bombs but they load up my paper. Next project I plan to switch powder guide coat.



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:21 pm
image1.JPG
image4.JPG
image1.JPG
image1.JPG
image4.JPG
I appreciate the info given guys. The links helped to except the pictures were missing on the guide coat information but I found info on the web and youtube on laying down the guide coats to show low spots.

I spoke to PPG and they recommended 3 products to spray over epoxy primer. Jp202 urethane primer, Jp209 Polyester primer and JP285 urethane surfacer. When speaking with the Retailer they suggested the JP202 urethane primer. He said that should lay on thick enough to fill any low spots if they are small enough. If they are deeper he suggested putty. i'm hoping i won't need that. So as it stands now I will

Prep the metal with 80 grit on a DA (need to buy one)
Spray two coats of epoxy
Spray 1-2 coats of the urethane primer
Sand with 220-320-400 in that order?
Spray guide coat and sand with 180 to show low spots.
spray more urethane on low spots if found
Sand again over spots and end with 400 grit over panels
Do i need to spray a second guide coat?

Shoot basecoat 2 coats
Shoot clear coat 2-3 coats.
Wetsand and buff


I'm a little concerned that the JP202 is gray and my car is white but i'm hoping i won't need to spray a ton of base to cover it.

If anyone has a link on how to upload pics that would be awesome. I loaded some in photo bucket but i'm not sure how upload them here. The door that needs a repair and the qtr panel stripped using stripping wheel on Angle grinder. The qtr had dust and sitting and hasn't been cleaned for the pics sorry


Edit: found how to upload photos
Attachments
image3.JPG
image2.JPG



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:35 pm
Lenny B wrote:This is what I'd do:

1) Sand the bare metal panel with 80 grit on a DA to create some tooth. Do the same to a painted panel as long as it is a stable coating and compatible. If not strip, it to bare metal also.

2) Next apply a couple coats of epoxy primer to protect the metal from corrosion.

3) Next apply filler to any obvious low spots with your choice of quality body filler and block it with 80 grit followed by 180 grit (example of good body filler: Evercoat Rage). Get this as close to perfect as possible.

4) Next apply 1 to 2 full coats of sprayable body filler (AKA polyester primer). This is to fill any subtle (paper thin) low spots. Block with 180 grit and use a guide coat. If any low spots are found that the polyester primer can't fill, touch them up with the body filler and block to 180 grit

5) Once above is as perfect as possible, apply 1 to 2 full coats of urethane primer. This seals the porous products below. Block the urethane primer with 180, then 320, then finally 400. (Note, the final grit should be whatever the paint being applied calls for, usually 400 to 600 grit.

6) At this point if you are sure the panels are perfect and ready for paint, then apply however many coats of base are needed for full coverage. Also, some guys apply a seal coat (usually a reduced epoxy primer) just prior to applying the base. The seal coat is not always necessary but doesn't hurt and can help when needed.

7) Next apply 2 to 3 coats of clear or whatever is recommended by your paint manufacturer.

Hope that helps



So do you think i should return the jP202 and get the JP209 polyester? I bought it before seeing your post. Thanks again for contributing to this post! It is very helpful

Edit:

Will my compressor work for my setup? the specs say 7.4 SCFM @ 40 PSI 5.8 SCFM @ 90 PSI. Its a 25 gallon tank. 1.8hp craftsman. Will the tank cycle and not be able to keep up?

The cheap harbor freight gun says 6 CFM @ 40 PSI on the box. So i believe I'm in the clear there. Im just wondering if the FLG5 will work with it. The specs are listed below. I couldn't find a clear CFM @ ____ PSI for the gun. only whats listed below

Nozzles: 1.4mm, 1.8mm
Atomisation Technology: Trans-Tech
Air Cap: #5 (Air Flow: 9.8 CFM/277 lpm)
Rebuild Kit: available (K-5040)
Spare Parts: Nozzle, needle, air cap (incl. retaining ring)
Maximum Air Pressure: 175 PSI/12 bar
Gun Body: Forged Aluminum
Air Inlet: Universal ¼” (BSP and NPS)
Gun Weight: 930 g
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