Welding in a patch panel

More of an art than a science - discuss metalworking and welding here.



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:54 am
I'v got my center transition patch panel for my 64 mustang fit and ready to butt weld in. I had to cut it out of a 66, i was unable to find a store bought panel for it. My question is if YOU had the chance would u weld it from the inside of the car or the underside of the car. The car is on a rotisarry and it's currently on it's left side. The reason i'm asking is i want the patch to b un noticible on the floor. No tracks or ripples from the butt weld and NO bondo over it. I'v seen poeple hammer weld the welds after welding to flatten the weld, But i expermitted in some pieces and it just rippled on the sides of the weld. After i get this patch panel in i will fit the Right rear under seat panel in and butt and plug weld it in. The reason i needed the small center transition pan patch was the floor was rotted through pieces at the flange weld area where both pieces meet. And yes the inside will have the sound deadening and carpet's in it. But the bottom will be primed and painted and no undercoating, I want the bottom to be as shinney as the rest of the car. In the mean time i'll practice more with my Lincoln powermig 180 or the henrob 2000 to see witch will lay the best warp free bead.
Thank you for any input and hope ya like the pictures, ( my first attempt to load them and if i could figure out how to do a profile picture i'd do it too ) C-ya Scott
Attachments
Underside view of patch for the center transition pan.jpg
Underside of the center transition patch panel
inside view of patch for the center transistion pan.jpg
This is a picture of the patch from the inside
My Name is Scott, My fellow workers call me Slinger aka Slingblade, ( Some people call it a kysor blade, I call it a slingblade)



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:12 am
Oh and i also wanted to say that the holes in my patch panel are from cutting out the spot welds holding it to the floor pan. C-ya Scott
My Name is Scott, My fellow workers call me Slinger aka Slingblade, ( Some people call it a kysor blade, I call it a slingblade)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 12:40 pm
Looks like you did a good job of fitting the patch panel.
I assume you are spot welding this in so as not to overheat and warp the panel. I like to spot weld every 3" to get the patch secure than go back around an spot in the center so I have welds every 1 1/2". After that I spot weld to the previous spot welds until I have about 3/4" spaces and then weld them solid skipping around to prevent overheating. You can use compressed air to cool things as well.
Once done I grind the welds flat on both sides (if I have access) and when done right you cannot tell the panel has been patched. If you won't have access to the backside then try to get that area primed with weld-thru primer prior to installing.
1968 Coronet R/T


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:26 am
Tks for the reply 68 cornet r/t. Well what i plan to do is try and clean the metal good enough that i can use the mig welder and butt weld it in with a series of stitch welds. Or if spot welding like you mean is what i call stitch welding. I'm not making a flange on the pieces to eather spot or plug weld them. Both end's together and butt welded. As i'v found out, if the steel isn't rust free the mig welder will just waste wire and i might have to use the henrob torch to weld it together. The henrob torch will weld steel with a little rust on it. But this will take more pratcing on my part if i want this to look the way i want it. When this patch is done then i will fit the right rear floor pan patch and butt weld in the front and left sides, plug weld to this patch and the right side as well. I picked up a 64- 65 mustang weld and sealant assy. manual that showes where ALL the spot welds are and how to assy. the body. ( Man i wish i could find a book like this one for my 70 el camino :cry: ) And one thing i saw in this book is what Ford calls a puddle weld. That's the large hole in the of this patch panel. A puddle weld is like plug welding but not filling up the hole and using acc. torch and steel rod and tacking the steel together. Also the axual spot welds didn't corospond to the assy manual. C-ya Scott
My Name is Scott, My fellow workers call me Slinger aka Slingblade, ( Some people call it a kysor blade, I call it a slingblade)



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:02 pm
I'v been welding in the patch and I don't like trying to fill in the gap. As far as i'm conserned there should be no gap in the butt weld's. Where the metal had no gap, the DHC 2000 torch with 0 tip, 3/32 RG-45 tig rod fused the metal prefectly with hardly no rod, But the gaps were another story. Burn throughs and warpage was the problem. Also found it tough to grind the welds with out making the metal too thin, ( becuse i want it to look on both sides). Also found it best to grind the welds then hammer the warpage flat. I'll post pictures as soon as i'm happy. C-ya Scott
My Name is Scott, My fellow workers call me Slinger aka Slingblade, ( Some people call it a kysor blade, I call it a slingblade)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:13 am
I agree. The better the patch fits the easier it is to weld, the less you have to grind and the better everything looks when done.
It is the same with painting. If you spend the time getting everything prepared properly it just goes on and looks better.
1968 Coronet R/T


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:01 pm
slingslingbinks wrote:I'v been welding in the patch and I don't like trying to fill in the gap. As far as i'm conserned there should be no gap in the butt weld's. Where the metal had no gap, the DHC 2000 torch with 0 tip, 3/32 RG-45 tig rod fused the metal prefectly with hardly no rod, But the gaps were another story. Burn throughs and warpage was the problem. Also found it tough to grind the welds with out making the metal too thin, ( becuse i want it to look on both sides). Also found it best to grind the welds then hammer the warpage flat. I'll post pictures as soon as i'm happy. C-ya Scott


I agree with every thing you said
I tride those panel clamps once and while they look like the cats Meow They actually make it a lot harder to do the repair do to the Gap.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:26 pm
Tks 68 coronet r/t and doright. I think the panel clamps would do the job better if a person was to make a notch the lenght of the panel clamp in the butt weld area only and mate the rest of the area up tight, So after the panel clamp is removed u only have that 1/2 inch or so to fill up the gap. C-ya Scott
My Name is Scott, My fellow workers call me Slinger aka Slingblade, ( Some people call it a kysor blade, I call it a slingblade)



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:30 am
I'd definitely mig weld it, not using flux cored wire. Weld it from whichecer side you can best get at with a grinder. I actually prfer a slight gap like that. You should tack every couple of inches, then knock the tacks down with an 80 grit flap wheel. Welding vertical down is ideal on thin metal as heat rises. If you can manipulate the car on your rotisserie to weld downhand it would help. If you can clamp or wedge a piece of copper or aluminum behind the joint it will soak up some of the heat and reduce warpage. Remember that heat from ginding will warp a panel just as heat from welding. Weld the joint and let it cool before and grinding. Don't be in a hurry and you'll do fine!



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:55 pm
I agree that a small gap is good especially if you wish to grind your weld afterwards. The reason is if done correctly with a MIG with small non flux wire (.023 diameter), the short trigger from the MIG will tend to fill the gap and create a stronger joint and not cause excessive puddle build up on the surface as it would if it was a tight joint. This really only holds true if you are grinding off the weld. In other words, if you have a tight joint and weld with the same heat as you do with a gap, the weld bead will sit on the surface and if you grind it off you will weaken the joint. I hope that this helps...

Steve
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