Your 1/4 panel may have been replaced with a Mopar original 30 or 40 years ago when the car was fairly new, long before the recent replacement. And there are cavities all over the car with no protection, I wouldn't recommend a cavity like that on the lower portion of the car---- like a rocker panel LOL----but at least as late as the 1950s the factory didn't even worry about protection for areas that high up on the car. The impotant thing is to make sure no water gets in without a way out.

The only moisture that could even possibly get in there is humidity, and there will still be a headliner barrier to offer a little protection. No water will get there, and its not low enough to wick it up from the ground, and it will probably live a sheltered life anyway.

I would definitely spot blast that pinch weld seam, because it looks like there could be some corrosion going on in there, then weld the seam solid to seal it up. If you are on a budget, you could check out harbor freight for a spot blaster, not great but it does alright. For the filler rod, I have started using ER70S-2, its quite a bit softer for planishing and its more tolerant to a little corrosion left after blasting, which usually leaves some rust in the pits. If you notice when you leave bare blasted metal for a few days, the pits are always first to rerust, unless it gets some moisture on it from hands, etc. BTW, ER70S-2 is also available for mig welding, and ER70S-3 is recommended for a lot of late model high strength steel to reduce the chance of cracks in the weld.

By using a tig welder you could do all the welding without pinholes, especially in that particular area with all the backing that you will have there. Then do the patch over it all, but keep in mind that you can't do any planishing, so I would just do about 1 inch stitches and let it cool naturally, before doing the next inch. An inch long stitch there will not be a problem, but the quicker you get in and out the better. I did the same repair on the Nomad project and decided to use the mig welder for that.

You could also check out that silicon bronze that I mentioned, to further seal it after welding the patch. I haven't tried it yet, but I was able to get it at my local welding supply, for about $15 a lb. It doesn't need a flux and doesn't cause any problems for the paint.

If you are hesitant about welding and brave enough for new adventure, you could seal the seam with silicon bronze, then braze the patch with it also. It only requires about half the heat, and only has about half the strength, but you don't need strength here anyway. If that sounds interesting, I would do alot of practice before you put it on the seam to be sure you want to use it, welding the patch may be too much heat for the SB thats on the seam under it.

Here is some information on the silicon bronze from Ron Covell from way back in 2007. I attended a metal working class of his a few years ago, mostly welding, nice guy. I also attended a welding class last year with a different instructor, and he recommended silicon bronze for a lot of different non-structural patch welds, although we didn't use any. I didn't think much of it for that, but for your seam I think it makes a lot of sense.

http://metalshapers.org/101/covell/cove ... onze.shtml


And MR TIG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2_hXQ4ABrg


This is an A pillar (windshield post) from a 58 year old car with an unknown history.





Even has ventilation holes and still didn't rust much.







Same area, and age, just different car. This one is from the rust belt and spent considerable time out in the weather, including a two or three years exposed after I cut it off.





This is off of a 57 Chevy Convertible that was parked and left to die in a field in the midwest several decades ago. Of course the top was rotted off long ago, but this windlace area was protected by the dash. Amazingly it has shiny metal showing.





This one is a convertible from the south west desert that sat out in the weather for several decades, but that is not a good indication for rust as we know it in the midwest, I'm just posting it to show another cavity that isn't known for being prone to rusting. It is where the inner 1/4 panel goes over the wheel house up to the outer 1/4 panel pinch weld.

Must be an echo in here,I said that the quarter was poorly replaced when it was new then a lower skin installed,oh well.Just clean the roof/quarter seam with a spot sand blaster weld it solid ,re-clean and call it a day.No need to reinvent the wheel.I have seen and fixed too many old musclecars where people get creative and butcher a patch over the seam,its just not necessary and many people do more harm than good.

Jayson m wrote:Must be an echo in here,I said that the quarter was poorly replaced when it was new then a lower skin installed,oh well.Just clean the roof/quarter seam with a spot sand blaster weld it solid ,re-clean and call it a day.No need to reinvent the wheel.I have seen and fixed too many old musclecars where people get creative and butcher a patch over the seam,its just not necessary and many people do more harm than good.

I'll second this. For decades all I've used is short strand and filler on fully welded sails. Never had ghost lines or the often reported repair evidence when subjected to heat. I'm not a hobbiest and neither is Jayson.

ScottB wrote: For decades all I've used is short strand and filler on fully welded sails. Never had ghost lines or the often reported repair evidence when subjected to heat. I'm not a hobbiest and neither is Jayson.

I agree, its the easiest, quickest, and safest way. I guess I misunderstood the argument.

Jayson m wrote:If you put a patch in there it will just be another spot that you can't seal properly and it will rust out again,bubble,etc.

Nobody is arguing,just stating facts.......

it is interesting listening to the various pots regarding my seam.... I have emailed detailed pics to one of the countries leading Mopar especially E body experts who has done metal work on these cars exclusively for 35 years .. I will post his reply when I get it

ScottB wrote:

Jayson m wrote:Must be an echo in here,I said that the quarter was poorly replaced when it was new then a lower skin installed,oh well.Just clean the roof/quarter seam with a spot sand blaster weld it solid ,re-clean and call it a day.No need to reinvent the wheel.I have seen and fixed too many old musclecars where people get creative and butcher a patch over the seam,its just not necessary and many people do more harm than good.

I'll second this. For decades all I've used is short strand and filler on fully welded sails. Never had ghost lines or the often reported repair evidence when subjected to heat. I'm not a hobbiest and neither is Jayson.

I have read from a few of you to use duraglass .. thats is what was in there ... I grinded it out the ghosting was very hard to see but it was there... a few mopar pro rest guys have said NOT to use anything but lead..... after welding it... Im awaiting the reply from the master like my previous post says

If you can make good tig welds, then I'm sure that you won't have any weld problems with the way you wanted to proceed, due to the lack of moisture. However I think the potential problem with the void is the heat that will be generated in there from the sun that may cause your patch to expand more, causing the ghosting that you want to avoid.

In the case of the nomad project I stacked the metal, welding each piece to make it solid, and did all of that because of the common crack that develops where the 1/4 panel and B pillar meet. The 1/4 just has a little 1"X5" wing that sticks up to be spot welded onto the B pillar and that just doesn't seem to be enough to make the two stable enough to avoid cracking the filler, so I wanted it to be much more solid. A lot of nomads still have the original lead, so it will crack. edit: The lead doesn't crack, its the paint in this area due to such a small piece of metal -V- the 1/4 panel, but then again that was lacquer paint.

But in your case I have to back track and say that I was probably wrong in my thinking about it, because of the higher probability for ghosting. Like Scott B said most of the restoration shops are using fillers, so it might interesting to see what your expert says, although mopar seams are no different than GM or Ford. But you are looking for advice and have to put your trust in someone, so hopefully he will have a good answer for you.

well here is the answer as this is where i thought it would ended up


Hi Paul



Yes, the filler is likely Dura-Glass or something similar.

The seam appears to be factory with the lead removed.
If it was originally a vinyl top car it may have had a plastic
filler... some where leaded, some used a plastic compound.

THIS IS WHAT YOU DO :

1. The seam should be MIG welded solid. Because of original solder residue under the
flange, TIG welding won’t work well. Vinyl top cars didn’t have body solder on the
roof seams and are easier to weld.

2. The weld should be ground flat. No pinholes or other cavities can remain. You don’t
want any place for the prepping products to seep in or for condensation to invade
from behind the lead. This is the main culprit for the rust that is often found
under factory leadwork.

3. The weld & entire area to be leaded should be sanded very smooth. Grinding ruts and
coarse sanding marks are not desirable. 3M Clean ‘n Strip discs or Scotchbrite wheels leave a perfect shiny smooth metal finish.

4. Now wipe down the area with wax & grease remover.

5. Brush on Tinning Butter (as available from Eastwood Co.) liberally.

6. Heat the Tinning Butter slowly & evenly until it turns a dark brown color.

7. After cooling, wipe the brown residue off first with a damp cloth to remove as much as
possible.

8. Follow by scrubbing with a paste made using baking soda and water. This step is to neutralize any remaining acid residue and further clean the surface.

9. The last step before soldering is to wipe the area down with a solvent such as Glasurit
360-4 Metal Cleaner or equivalent.

10. The entire area to be leaded should now have a shiny tin coating.

11. Here’s the part where it gets tricky! Apply heat evenly over a couple square inch
at a time until a solder bar can be melted by the metal. You don’t want to melt the
bar with the torch flame! The solder is applied by melting it into the panel much
like putting out a cigarette. Warm the panel, remove the heat and push the bar on.
This is repeated over the whole area until enough solder is applied to fill the area.


12. The last step is to re-warm the solder until it gets just to the “plastic” stage.
Too much heat and it will run to the floor; not enough and the paddle won’t move
the solder or it will crumble. The paddle has to be coated by melting wax in a
tub and sliding it into it. “In the day” oil was used, but the wax works much
better. In this step it’s important to heat the solder well enough so that while
spreading it, minimal air pockets form and that the coating all melts together.


13. The leaded seam can now be filed or sanded to shape. VERY IMPORTANT to wear
excellent respiratory protection!
The feather edges of the lead should be well adhered and not be able to be scraped
back with a fingernail. If it can, you didn’t do it right!

14. A perfectly filled seam isn’t totally necessary; the final touches can be done in a quality plastic
filler after a coat of epoxy primer. The thickness of lead will control the telegraph
problem I spoke of earlier in this article.


Leadwork 101

The quality of plastic fillers has progressed immensely since their introduction and are in my opinion a better option than lead in most cases. Keep in mind that both lead & plastic are both fillers and their use should be minimized by proper metalwork.
While lead or body solder has been all but replaced by plastic fillers, there are a couple situations where I feel lead is worth the extra trouble & expense to use…
When filling is needed on the edge of panel where it may be subject to bumping, lead is preferred.

The other place I insist on using lead is on the roof seams and rocker panel to quarter joints. These seams are vulnerable to “telegraphing”. A condition where the seam becomes visible in the hot sun. It’s caused by differences in expansion of the different metal thicknesses and stress differences of the panels. Use of any plastic based filler will not stop it!...This includes All Metal, Metal-To-Metal, Tiger Hair, DuraGlas, any ‘glass strand fillers, etc. The only cure I’ve had success with is to lead the seam.

Leadwork can haunt you if it’s not done exactly right. Every step must be done correctly.

Rick

here is the Ebody procedure I thought I would share from another of the best of the best.. wow these guys are good.... notice it is the exact seam i have the overlapping underseam totally OEM factory with most of the lead removed... The Mopar guys know these cars..



.thx everyone for your input i just need to get this build done right