flux ok or no go

More of an art than a science - discuss metalworking and welding here.



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:05 am
I am enjoying the welding myself
I will be doing same repairs with Adhesives for most part on my next project just to show how the technology can be used.
There has already been enough testing of it to prove its as strong as welding, New cars are are built with adhesives as are newer aircraft such as the Fokker F100.
Dennis B.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:43 pm
If you can afford a TIG setup, it can come in handy for light sheet metal work and even working with aluminum. ;) It takes a little finesse to learn the technique and requires good coordination.

Gas welding is really handy for working with light sheet metal or filling multiple pin holes. If you control your heat, you can produce some very clean welds that require very little grinding. It also anneals the metal, making it easier to work with hammer and dolly. That is one of the things I don't like about MIG or TIG (hard welds).

The technology for panel adhesives has come a long way. It still requires a good amount of surface area to make a strong bond. I question the long term durability of adhesive in rust prone or wet locations...



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:57 pm
Wow I got lucky Sorry Saty69 I went to Ebay after looking at J28 and j40 and Meco and ran across what Chevman wants a Meco N Midget AND a Weldit W101 gas saver for $175 buy it now!

After looking at and drooling for these little jewels past few weeks I know dam well this is a steel and hit the buy it now button no quibbling!

How small these are
https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Meco+ ... ype=937811

Now I am really excited made My Xmass :rockon:
Still have to get some hose and tips but still YA! I bet this thing ROCKS Im excited

so small & light with a Teeny tiny sharp flame gonna be cool cant wait! :knockout:
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:32 pm
vwbobby wrote:
Gas welding is really handy for working with light sheet metal or filling multiple pin holes. If you control your heat, you can produce some very clean welds that require very little grinding. It also anneals the metal, making it easier to work with hammer and dolly. That is one of the things I don't like about MIG or TIG (hard welds).

Hey Bobby, I don't wish to be so disagreeable, but I have something for you to read about this subject, because I have noticed that you have mentioned a few times that the tig makes a hard weld.

Its interesting to go through the whole thread, but post # 61 had the answer that stopped the discussion. Some highly intelligent and well educated welders here in this discussion.
http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=1287



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:00 am
I am currently looking at a plasma cutter/MMA and tig welding machine (3 in 1). The price around 500.00 Canadian (560.00 with taxes in) which is around 425.00 US. As I said I know it's more than likely Chinese, but I will not be using this like some of you might use it, constantly. The unit has the following ratings;
Tig input current 23.4 a (amps)
output current 160 a
Cut input current 29 a
output 40a
MMA input current 28 a
output 150 a
Would this machine be adequate for a hobbyist who would only use to restore his car, and then use from time to time for other projects, very limited usage. Thanks and hope everyone is having a great Christmas.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:59 am
chevman wrote:Hey Bobby, I don't wish to be so disagreeable, but I have something for you to read about this subject, because I have noticed that you have mentioned a few times that the tig makes a hard weld.

Its interesting to go through the whole thread, but post # 61 had the answer that stopped the discussion. Some highly intelligent and well educated welders here in this discussion.
http://www.allmetalshaping.com/showthread.php?t=1287


I read the post #61 and some of the thread, and I agree with much of what was said. However, the real issue comes from the rapid cooling of the weld, regardless of polarity or weld process. When you harden a metal, heating and rapidly cooling the metal will "set" it and create a memory in the metal. (the molecules align) This is how you can eliminate oil canning in a panel or create springs and other tempered metal.

If you work a TIG in a way that you are heating the base metal and filler rod to nearly the same temp, and moving slowly, it will help keep the area from cooling down rapidly and hardening the weld. If you are working quickly, the weld area will be rapidly heated and cooled. It still isn't as hard as a MIG weld, but it can still have similar characteristics.
This is one of the reasons a gas weld is so soft compared to a rapidly heated and cooled weld (MIG).

SATYR69,

The unit you are looking at has plenty of amperage for welding body panels. The main concern is the adjustment. How controllable is the "heat"? Does it use a hand control or foot pedal? Are the adjustments variable or does it have presets? You want variable adjustments...



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:52 am
If your gonna look at cheap China stuff look at one with these bells and whistles.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-4-in-1-inve ... 3ce3ca7049

Look for having PULSE also you want AC
You want Pulse for welding thin stuff and AC for Aluminum every thing else it does is cool too but Pulse and having AC/DC most important in looking for a new machine myself. heck If I had the extra cash I would try any of these machines myself cant beat there prices with a stick if you tried not with all the features these machines have very nice especially at these prices.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-200P-220v ... 33981410f4

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER200P-TIG20 ... 3a8edd4915

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER200P-TIG20 ... 3a8edd4915
Dennis B.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:24 am
Tig range from 10-160 a so it's adjustable but no mention of pulse so I doubt it has the pulse feature. The units you have posted by the time you factor in the dollar exchange and shipping and customs it would be around 1000.00 (Can) a bit much for a unit I would use very little.



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:47 pm
vwbobby wrote:If you work a TIG in a way that you are heating the base metal and filler rod to nearly the same temp, and moving slowly, it will help keep the area from cooling down rapidly and hardening the weld.

Mig welding heats the filler rod, but tig welding heats the two edges of the weld seam equally (ideally), and the filler rod is melted by dipping into the weld pool, just like gas welding. The difference is the oxy/acetylene flame is much less concentrated, so gas welding heats much more of the panel for the same weld. That means that the weld will cool much slower, so it will result in a softer weld than tig, but that does not put tig weld hardness in a class anywhere near a mig weld. All the guys in that thread, all the classes I have attended, and all the metal workers that I have been in contact with or read about, agree that tig welding sheet metal is somewhat less desirable than gas welding but far superior to mig welding in respects to weld hardness and workability of the welded seam.

Some even prefer to use tig, as I do. Its just a lot less distortion to deal with. The only reason I stop a weld bead before the end of the seam with a tig, is to make sure that I'm still on the seam, unless its a long seam on a fairly flat panel. Seeing the seam is not a problem when gas welding a tightly fitted seam with a #5 lens. But I usually have to stop to stretch a gas weld repeatedly, so as not to loose control of the panel, which is the reason I prefer tig welding sheet metal. And I believe most tig welders do a continuous weld.

Thats just my opinion, and anyone is likely to have one. :allgood:



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:27 pm
How difficult is it to weld out of the flat position. The quarter on a car is in a horizontal position so the molten pool would drop from the weld seam because of gravity or is there a certain technique in controlling the molten pool? I watched a few utube videos and most are in the flat position. The one plasma/MMA/tig machine I am looking at has a foot controller and variable current but no pulse feature.
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