To wash or not to wash...

More of an art than a science - discuss metalworking and welding here.



Settled In
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:29 pm

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:49 pm
I'd like to know if it's necessary to wash the vehicle before you start doing any body work to it.
Thanks.

User avatar

Top Contributor
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:46 am
Location: Canberra
Country:
Australia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:50 am
In my shop everything gets washed, then cleaned with Prepsol before we start any work. Everything is washed again before it goes into the booth for priming or painting, with special attention to joints around doors, bonnet and boot. We get very few silicone problems and washing before painting significantly reduces dust being blown up and back on to the paint.

A little more work will save you lots of headaches. :wink:
Chris



Settled In
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:36 pm

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:10 pm
NFT5 wrote:In my shop everything gets washed, then cleaned with Prepsol before we start any work. Everything is washed again before it goes into the booth for priming or painting, with special attention to joints around doors, bonnet and boot. We get very few silicone problems and washing before painting significantly reduces dust being blown up and back on to the paint.

A little more work will save you lots of headaches. :wink:

Very impressive, I like it.
Are you able to get paid from the insurance co. for all this time consuming labor?

User avatar

Top Contributor
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:46 am
Location: Canberra
Country:
Australia
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:06 am
Flash wrote:Are you able to get paid from the insurance co. for all this time consuming labor?


It takes maybe 10 minutes to wash a car. Compare that to how long it takes to wet sand and buff if you get a pile of junk in the paint, or how long it takes to re-do the job if there are silicone fisheyes in the paint. Probably 90% of what I paint goes out the door 'off the gun'.
Chris



Settled In
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:36 pm

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:14 pm
NFT5 wrote:
Flash wrote:Are you able to get paid from the insurance co. for all this time consuming labor?


It takes maybe 10 minutes to wash a car. Compare that to how long it takes to wet sand and buff if you get a pile of junk in the paint, or how long it takes to re-do the job if there are silicone fisheyes in the paint. Probably 90% of what I paint goes out the door 'off the gun'.


So you completely wash and prepsol each car , including jambs, hood and trunk at least 3 times during the repair process, in my shop that a lot of time if you add it all up. It's bad enough they don't pay for detailing the car when the repair is complete! It sounds like you do a very thorough job, and I can appreciate that, and I'm with you on the preventative angle. In America we live in the real world, and I'm sure in Australia, with dust and other contaminants that are going to get into the finish in the end no matter how many times you wash the car. If you have fish eyes in the paint if you don't implement your regiment then you have larger issues you need to fix. A common sense de-nibbing and light wet sanding for excessive orange peel and dryer spots, even the best painters get them, is what every vehicle receives before it leaves. 90% is almost cleaner than a factory finish, again very impressive!

User avatar

Top Contributor
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:46 am
Location: Canberra
Country:
Australia
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:39 am
Not quite. Repair area and nearby sections of adjacent panels get Prepsol first then a basic wash so we can see the damage. Jambs and joints washed after repairs done and before going in for paint. I may Prepsol again before masking up if I don't like the look/feel or I'm just suspicious. We do about 20% dealer work so many of those have been detailed and slimed.

Canberra is called the 'bush capital' because it is in the middle of nowhere. Predominant winds are from the north west and carry red dust originating in the dry centre of the continent and/or from farms only a few kilometres away. When it rains most things end up dirtier than before the rain which is often almost falling mud. In spring we get wattle and pine pollen (both yellow) from nearby forests upwind that sticks to the surface and creates thousands of micro fisheyes, so we have literally minutes to get a car inside after washing. For 5 months of the year we get frosts most nights so that just collects the dirt on anything left outside. A lot of trees here are deciduous so in autumn the bonnet and boot joints are often filled with leaves. Gum trees aren't deciduous but just drop leaves and bark all year round.

Nothing that doesn't happen elsewhere but I'm convinced that the extra work is well worth it if I can minimise dirt and dust in the booth (vacuumed twice a week and fully washed out weekly with filter changes) and keep the jobs clean they can usually just be stripped and go straight out. Sometimes a couple of little spots that need a quick denib. I try to adjust peel to match the finish of the rest of the car so rare that that needs to be addressed unless a prestige or show car, but they're the exception rather than the rule. I'm not perfect, but I do try to not get dry spots and those that need attention are rare.

Remember that most of the work we do is one or two panels and we do a lot of bars which are usually off the car (so no need to do the whole vehicle). We do very little insurance work so the pittance rates they'll pay aren't a big issue for us.

Washing works for us. For those guys doing their own cars like many of the members here it's just another small step in getting the best quality job that they can and the extra time is minimal in the context of a full respray or a restoration.
Chris



Settled In
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:36 pm

Country:
USA
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:13 pm
Remember that most of the work we do is one or two panels and we do a lot of bars which are usually off the car (so no need to do the whole vehicle). We do very little insurance work so the pittance rates they'll pay aren't a big issue for us.

Well this is paragraph details the difference in our positions, and you seem to have adapted well to your seemingly impossible environment!
I would love to pay this much attention to detail, but 99% of our work is insurance and they don't care about the details just money.
Over the years we have managed to strike a rare balance between production and exceptional quality, as our reputation has shown.
I'm thankful that I don't have to accomplish this in your hellish surroundings.
Nice to see others that care on the other side of this quality declining world!



Top Contributor
Posts: 6213
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 1:17 pm
Location: Pahrump NV.
Country:
USA
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:17 pm
Flash wrote:I would love to pay this much attention to detail, but 99% of our work is insurance and they don't care about the details just money.


Customers have the right to take there car to the shop of there choice.
Shop owners should not be catering to the insurance company's but to there customers.
The industry should be pointing fingers back at insurance company's trying to force short cuts by not paying shop owners!
If more shop owners turned away more insurance company's you would see a change in the industry there are far more repair shops than insurance company's.

I don't do insurance jobs yet, but I am open to it, BUT I sure as heck wouldn't let a insurance company come into my shop and dictate how I run my shop or do repairs!
My customers don't come to me because I am affordable or because I save them money they come to my shop because they want it done right the first time.

The first time an insurance company didn't pay a bill as billed would be the last last time my shop would accept said insurance and the car owner would be held liable for the full balance or loose his car to a mechanics lean. I'm not an **** I am a business man providing a service just like any other. Far to many make concessions to insurance company's when they shouldn't.

As I said Perhaps more shops should turn more customers away at the door because they don't accept that company's insurance, Doctors do it all the time your shop should be NO different!
Then the word would get out and around That (Blank) company's insurance is a waste of money that too many shops don't accept it. forcing that company to change there policies and or go out of business. Will it change over night? No will the guy up the street still take the job oh most definitely BUT like any other business many come and go and the good ones last.

I don't ever wanna be in a position where I have to take every job that comes through the door might as well work for some one else and let them have all the headaches that goes along with the title shop owner.
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.

Return to Welding & Metal Fab

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests