Easier to cut and buff right after paint or way after?

Discuss anything after that final masking comes off.
How soon do you cut and buff?

The very next day.
6
40%
1 week after.
8
53%
2 weeks after.
1
7%
2-3 months after.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 15


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:21 am
ScottB wrote:That poll depends on numerous factors and can be misleading to many novices on here.
As far as PSI, higher pressures work with HVLP but 50 with an RP is too high. Every painter shoots differently even using the same gun. Some like close(4-5") and fast, and all wet coats, no tack coat. I don't shoot tack coats and I'm not alone. Whatever works for each, as long as the outcome is good. If a clear calls for a minimum mil thickness on the TDS using wet coats, a tack coat is a waste of T&M or it will reduce the recommended mil thickness. Full wet coats as shown on a TDS will not lead to runs if shot properly.



This is a very well said post. The line of clear that you use, has a lot to do with this pole; as does the catalyst, ambient temp, type of job, humidity, etc. I'm assuming that he was asking about the run of the mill quick clear that most people seem to use on your average job.

Some production clears can be cut in as little as 2-4 hours, but i dont think thats what the majority of folks on this form use. I own a shop, and I never use that kind of clear.

And you are absolutely right about painters and there techninques, everyone has a different style. As you are about Compliant guns, they're just as different from HVLP's as Conventionals are. Very well said post my friend.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:54 am
Thanks for the replies Scott and Bowtie!

Man, haven't been able to spray yet. :rolleyes: It has been too cold.
This week should be a perfect for paint though.

I am using an ss 396 acrylic polyurethane clear mixed 4:1 with the hardener. No reducer.

Scott, the TDS is calling for 2 full wet coats after base coat has flashed off.
And a film thickness of 2-3ml dry mils... What does it mean when it says "dry mils"?

And I'm not sure if the TDS 2 full wet coats are including cutting and buffing. I don't think they are. So I should do 3 full wet coats or 3 med wet coats to get enough clear on there to cut and buff?

Bowtie, I'm going to be watching every layer of clear that is sprayed. To ensure I get no dry spots. Upping the PSI and staying a 5-6" from the panel moving fast I'm pretty confident that the clear will look much better.
Clear coat supplier says clear can be sanded the next.
The TDS says can be sanded in an hour of baked at 140°F! Or at least that's what I think it means.
Without a car oven, I think I will still wait a few days to cut and buff. Maybe in the summer I can cut and buff the next day with no worries!
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 12:44 pm
DFT refers to "dry film thickness"

Let's start with PPG

DC2000 35.1% solids @ a 4:1:1 ratio (I mix 4:1)
DC3000 38.09% solids @ 4:1:1 ratio
DC4000 39.9% solids @ 4:1:1 ratio

To make numbers easy I'll move to DeBeer

8-104 50% solids

Theses numbers all mean how much clear will be left on the car after it has dried.
You can see you lose 50% with DeBeer and 65% with DC2000

80% or more painters never achieve proper mil thickness.

When asking a question like when is the best time to polish depends on these questions first

What clear did you use ?
What was the temperature when sprayed ?
What was temp when curing over night ?
How many coats was applied ? Etc etc
I could write 2 pages of factors you need to consider.

As for me I cut and buff the next day. (If I buff at all)

I'm a fan of cutting my clear with 800-1000 and reclearing then at most I might have one or two tiny pieces of dirt to denib. It will look like glass and you will have a good nice solid paint job.
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 11:08 pm
Dave do you have any orange peel left the second time around with the clear when you cut it with 800-1000 and respray?

These days if its a car at home I'll give it a few days or a week to cut and buff.
At work its the very next day. :splat:
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:55 am
Very very little peel. Just enough to hide OEM stamp lines or other sheet metal imperfect. And just little enough to make others believe it was cut and buffed.

May have to denib a piece of dirt or two.

I buff as little as I can. sometimes the same day.

Is it cold where you are ? Try cutting and buffing the next day or a day after that. You'll get your sand scratches out easier. I also cut down to 3000 or 5000 never hit anything with anything coarser than 2000
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 6:56 am
Not polished. No need to
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 7:43 pm
The clear coat is fantastic but my question is what method you used to get the "Harley Davidson" since I assume it's under the clear.

Mine will say "Triumph" but I hope it looks as good.
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 8:16 pm
Just a normal "spray mask"

Paint and clear
Sand 800
Place your mask or decal
Clear
Sand 800
Clear again
Dirt nib if you have to and done.

I always do art work. Graphics. Over clear since mistakes are easily removed or fixed.
My airbusher is the one that does anything "mural" related.
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 10:05 pm
Thanks for the reply Dave. And that tank looks great!

I did some painting when it was cold here, at that time I would give it a week before any cutting/polishing.

It's starting to warm up now and I'm now able to cut and buff the next day, but even then the clear still feels soft.


I just sprayed some medallion euro clear yesterday and it was the worst clear I have used. Was giving me orange peel and was afraid to get to close to leave it flat, I didn't want it to run.
I'm going to see if it leveled out a bit tomorrow. If not will have to cut some of it down. 2 days for it should be plenty of time for it to be sandable.
I always and only sand with 1500grit wet and wool pad on a rotary takes care of the rest followed by waffle pad and polish. If dark color car, swirl remover on a DA for the finish.

How much time do you spend sandin up to 3000/5000 grit?
Cutting and buffing the next day? Do you have a car oven ?
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2016 11:32 pm
I do have bakers yes. But rarely bake clear that I'm going to polish. My whole shop is temperature controlled. You meantioned it has been cold there ? Your clear cold too ? That will make it more viscous and hard to spray. I like my clear at between 70 and 80 degrees. You can reduce a little even if it don't call for reducer but you need to be careful because you will get lots of die back and lower your solids content and that will lead to your topcoat failing.

My booth is a custom 20x30 global refinish booth. It is heated and also air conditioned for the summer. I grew up painting in a garage everything from bicycles to show cars so I know how to get around some of the problems you all may be having.

Best thing I can tell you is never spray your clear when the clear itself is cold. They make IR thermometers you can check the temp of your paint. Heat it if it's been sitting in a garage. Never keep it on concrete either as this will make it cold too. I like helping so don't be afraid to ask.
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