Sand scratches come back, after a week.
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bandit454
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Joined: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 298
Location: AL
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 Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Jimmo, there you go putting words in someone post. But I see where you are coming from on the training, you are charging for it on your website, its all about the money. Anyway, no since arguing, the one thing I have learned in life, the loudest barker usually is the looking for attention to hide what they really know.  |
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Mooch
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Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 319
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| bandit454 wrote: | | Jimmo, there you go putting words in someone post. But I see where you are coming from on the training, you are charging for it on your website, its all about the money. Anyway, no since arguing, the one thing I have learned in life, the loudest barker usually is the looking for attention to hide what they really know. |
And just what is it your trying to hide ?
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jimmo
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 929
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| bandit454 wrote: | | Jimmo, there you go putting words in someone post. But I see where you are coming from on the training, you are charging for it on your website, its all about the money. Anyway, no since arguing, the one thing I have learned in life, the loudest barker usually is the looking for attention to hide what they really know. |
I don't understand why some people here dance around the questions being asked. You obviously have no idea where I'm coming from, the training I charge for is designed for beginners who want to learn a thing or two, I charge for it to cover some operating costs & I still doubt it does that. I offered it free for the longest time, heres the link again if it makes you feel better:
http://www.refinishnetwork.info/index.php/Refinish-Articles/Training/Introduction-to-Autobody-Training.html
I built the site out of a genuine passion for the industry and what I do. Having the ability to discuss industry topics, problems, learn from one another and modify the site to suite the users is the main goal. The time I have invested in the site will probably never equal the money I get back, but it's still more than worth it to me.
I participate in these discussion to try and understand other viewpoints and allow others to understand mine, so I do find their to be a sense in arguing about it.
Have you ever attended a manufacturers training course? I've been to many and I found them to be a great benefit. To me, If you can learn one thing their, then its worth attending. The first few really helped me clear up some bad habits that I had thought were acceptable. I would inform them of my methods and they would be able to provide clear explanations on why it would be unacceptable. I can remember asking one question (about using different hardeners) the instructor couldn't answer 100%, so he brought an actual chemist in from down the hall to provide a full breakdown on the process.
I'm just trying to understand your point of view on training, in my experiences it has been the opposite. I just wanted to discuss your comments further & am curious to some of the things you referenced in your post.
I'm sorry if you feel my questioning your post makes you think I'm an unknowledgeable barker. It's just I come here to talk about auto body repair, if something doesn't sound right then I wanna discuss it for everyone's benefit, including my own.
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Han
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Joined: 02 Jan 2005
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Mooch
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Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 319
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Han
i no longer remember what this thread was originally about.
But i'm coming away with some very good information that
started here, then to autopia.org, and now meguiarsonline.com.
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Han it all started when some guys on another site implied that ODG was a hack by using wax to cover up swirls and scratches .
ODG has saw fit not to defend himself .
Hope this was of some help to you Han .
Mooch  |
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Han
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Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 4238
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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No help. It's been too long ago now...
Anyhow, i wound up at Autogeek.net and bought some Lake Country
pads and stuff. So, all you professional detailers beware; i'm coming
to out buff yous!
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Mooch
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Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 319
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| Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Han wrote: | No help. It's been too long ago now...
Anyhow, i wound up at Autogeek.net and bought some Lake Country
pads and stuff. So, all you professional detailers beware; i'm coming
to out buff yous!
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I like lake country products myself.
Mooch |
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RamThis
Senior Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 313
Location: NRH, Tx
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: |
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Product training is invaluable in any industry if you want to understand fully the products you are working with. Anyone who thinks training is not needed will be the first to say they do excellent work yet you look at what they do in person and it's horrible. I've attenede many update schools and training seminars on small engines and take some new knowlege with me every time, which makes my repairs more complete and precise, meaning the customer gets a better job for their money, which makes them happy. In the end, that's all that counts. The pride in knowing you are constantly honing your skills, and the customer knowing they are getting excellent work for their money.
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Ray D
Member
Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 55
Location: Ca.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:42 am Post subject: |
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Okay did a test. On my bus I have been sanding to 2000 grit, then using perfect-it II with a wool pad and then using the swirl remover with a foam pad. Today on the front side of the slideout I tried ODG's method, I did not have 1200 grit so I used 1500 grit wet sand with a DA. Then I used the heavy duty compound and I could not believe it. I finished in less than half the time and I did not have swirls and I am doing black. I had trouble handling the buffer with the foam pad and the heavy duty compound, so I had to keep spraying with water to use it. I cleaned it twice with water/alcohol and there just aren't any swirls. The only thing I can think of is this particular compound must wear down fast. For the rest of this project I am throwing away the wool pad. I will let is set now for a awhile and see if any buffing marks come back. Should have got a better close up, if anyone wants a better one let me know.
P.S. The bus siding was made by me also. The paint is single stage Nason, and yes I am happy with the stripes, after cut and buff you can hardly feel them, the only clear I used was on the metalic part of the stripes, I sprayed the metalic like a base coat, let it set, and then cleared and it worked fine.
Ray D[img] [/img]
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Han
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Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 4238
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: |
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That's good work Ray. I've been in a few of those and it's absolutely
amazing. How bout posting some more pics. Maybe some in progress?
In the Show and tell section.
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Mooch
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Joined: 31 Oct 2005
Posts: 319
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Did you use wax also ?
Mooch BTW Nice bus of what I can see . |
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ProTecht
Senior Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2008
Posts: 123
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| Ray D wrote: | Okay did a test. On my bus I have been sanding to 2000 grit, then using perfect-it II with a wool pad and then using the swirl remover with a foam pad. Today on the front side of the slideout I tried ODG's method, I did not have 1200 grit so I used 1500 grit wet sand with a DA. Then I used the heavy duty compound and I could not believe it. I finished in less than half the time and I did not have swirls and I am doing black. I had trouble handling the buffer with the foam pad and the heavy duty compound, so I had to keep spraying with water to use it. I cleaned it twice with water/alcohol and there just aren't any swirls. The only thing I can think of is this particular compound must wear down fast. For the rest of this project I am throwing away the wool pad. I will let is set now for a awhile and see if any buffing marks come back. Should have got a better close up, if anyone wants a better one let me know.
P.S. The bus siding was made by me also. The paint is single stage Nason, and yes I am happy with the stripes, after cut and buff you can hardly feel them, the only clear I used was on the metalic part of the stripes, I sprayed the metalic like a base coat, let it set, and then cleared and it worked fine.
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I'd say that the biggest reason why you achieved these results is because this buses (black)finish is single stage. That's a huge difference in regards to showing swirls. Single stage won't reflect/project swirls any where close to BC/CC. Single stage thrives on oils and that's most likely what is making the finish glossy. Even if you wiped the surface down with alcohol, it probably didn't remove the lubricating(filling) oils. Once the oils wear off, there's good chance that swirls will appear. Try using either 90%++ alcohol or even Pre-Sol to check your finish.
Do you have any close up pictures of the finish in direct sunlight? |
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ProTecht
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Han
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Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 4238
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Nice write up!
Picked up LOTS of good info on that one. He spent about 25 hours
so i don't feel so bad about the time i'm spending. Cool.
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BondoKing
Moderator
Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 1971
Location: Garage
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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$2500 for a cut and buff only.. Wow, I dont know of anyone getting paid that kind of money for a cut and buff.. Heck Id quit painting cars and just buff them for that
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