Fit and Finish

Show off your work! Anything from final results to full start-to-finish project journals.



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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 2:09 pm
Some of you may know about the Mecum Auction in Indianapolis a week or so ago, and I was there checking out some of the 5000 cars that I'm interested in. Some people look at the custom mods that a car has, power, or maybe origianality, but I look at the fit and finish. Out of all the mustangs in that group of 5000 cars, there were only a couple early mustangs that I thought had good panel alignment.

So that reminded me that quite some time ago I was asked about the process of taking the bow out of body panels and here was my answer.
chevman wrote:
It might surprise you how much improvement you can make to the looks of your car just by getting all the panels lined up properly and gaps adjusted right. When I walk through a field of show cars that is the most overlooked thing that I see, and some of it is just minor adjustments. The odd thing is that most of the owners don't seem to even realize the adjustment problems their cars have, but when they see one adjusted correctly, they do see a difference, and consider the car a higher quality even though adjustment may be the only difference in the cars.

These adjustments should be made before paint so you can make what ever little tweaking you have to do. So I would suggest you give that a try and see how it looks before getting radical. After you make your adjustments and tweaking, you could even spray some cheap gloss paint on to see how it looks, get some pictures of it to study, and then use reducer to wipe it off.

Actually, proper adjustment is the first step in making a car straight. The OP of that question may not even be on the forum anymore, but this might be helpful for some that are on here now, and I didn't have examples back then.

Cars in the southwestern states get a lot of sun so the paint dies rather quickly, thusly there are a lot of cheap paint jobs in that part of the country. This 57 being from LA Ca. had one of those paint jobs just before I bought it over 30 years ago. Its been in storage ever since, but I pulled it out a few years ago to get it ready to sell, including adjusting all the panels. You will notice in this picture that the bottom of the fender kicks out, instead of pointing straight ahead. To fix that it requires the spot welds that hold the fender to the brace to be drilled out to allow the fender to straighten out.

57 red ht.jpg


https://youtu.be/dQJ3wbKIRSA

If you look around at mustangs, whether its a show car or not, you might think they just have too many body lines to get everything lined up. But keep in mind these old cars have a lot of adjustments, and in some cases two ways to make the same move. Getting good panel alignment is difficult, slow, and agravating, and that can be true of the whole restoration process, so I guess it just depends on how bad you want it. But when you do get everything in alignment, make sure you drill and pin the door hinges so you don't lose everything if you pull the doors off.

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s438/sh/ec1cfb2b-ccef-4bbf-bb7c-ea5d58135045/3118ae228e7ca6c119cd796cf15562fb

https://youtu.be/4hnmfR5O0Jw

https://youtu.be/bVElTxLmXKE



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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2022 9:30 am
Good post
I myself don't worry to much about gaps as most older cars never had perfect gaps but alignment and panel fit I am always worried about.
I am always impressed with your work getting your panels so perfect and I try myself.
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 7:55 am
Thanks Dennis, its all about patience and perseverance. Its said to start at the door/quarter panel seam, and thats right, but thats not the end of adjusting that seam. Each seam is relative to all the rest, so no seam is done until all the seams are done. Even the gaps are dictated by the fit of all the panels. I was able to make adjustments to the quarters on the mustang, but the red chevy was simple adjustment only.
Last edited by chevman on Sun May 29, 2022 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.



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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2022 9:36 pm
I am going to have to do what you did to that 57 Chevy you were doing to my 57 Chrysler and fully remove the quarters to get them right. the Left side is bad. IF and when I get to it been a Long time coming.
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2023 7:45 am
As mentioned before, you don't want to have to line up the door each time you take the door off during a restoration.
Most guys seem to just drill two 1/8" holes and use a 1/8" pin to finally get it lined up, then tighten the bolts, and that does work, and may even be good enough for your purposes. Keep in mind that pin has to go through the hinge, the car body, and then through the nut plate. The hinge and nut plate move, so it can take a little time to get it lined up while holding the door.

I remove and reinstall the same doors many times, so my objective is to have two studs for each side of each door hinge, to just hang the door on, then install and tighten the bolts. This method locks the door floating nut plate in place with the body by threaded 1/4" bolts, and leaves a smooth stud for the door to hang on to. Its as simple as drilling two 1/4" holes with the proper drill bit, and tapping the hole. I use 1-1/2" long bolts that are not threaded all the way up.

Image


The first step even before attempting to align the door, is to remove the door hinges and drill the 7/32" holes in just the hinges on a drill press before even starting to get the doors lined up. Later on when the doors are lined up the way you want them, then you can finish drilling the holes through the perpendicular holes that are already there. Just remember that two holes in the door and two holes in the body are needed for each hinge.

Of course you have to get the door in the exact spot you want it first, but I don't like to drill the holes until I HAVE to remove the door, because things can change while still working on fitment or even repairs. When you are ready to drill the 7/32" holes, go ahead and use the predrilled hinge holes to get the complete hole perpendicular with the car, then remove the hinge and drill just the hinge holes again with a 1/4" drill bit with limited pressure to allow the bit to follow the existing hole, just removing the threads. Chamfer the edge slightly to help the pins find the hole.

Image


On this Mustang I had to do the body side of the hinges, then remove the door to do the door side of the hinges.

Image


If you have access to the back side, you might be able to install the 1/4" bolts from the back side and space them with larger nuts or washers, but there is a chance of loosing access to the bolt head after everything is reassembled, if it was ever necessary later on. There is also the metal retainer for the nut plate that is not flush against it, so it will be damaged if installing the bolts from the back side.

Image


Bolt (stick out) should be 1/8" to 3/16" max--1/8" is best. It doesn't sound like much, but it does the job very well, I would almost say perfect. Being short will allow some leeway for the bolts to be off somewhat from perpendicular, and the hinge slides onto the short pins much easier also.

Image


To get the smooth (stick out) for the hinge to rest on, just install the 1/4" bolts on the body, to lock down the nut plate to the body, without the hinge. You want to make sure there is no space left between the nut plate and the body, it can be a bit tricky. Run the 1/4" bolts down all the way to the end of the thread, then tighten the bolts just slightly against the untapped part of the bolt, just a little past finger tight. Too tight will damage the threads on the body or door where the bolt needs to start its way in, and these pins working their way out over time is doubtful. Then measure the 1/8" (stick out), remove the bolt and cut it, then smooth out the cut edge of the bolt.

Image


Its certainly too much work for most, but maybe not for a few. It takes time a realign a door everytime it is removed, but this method only requires a couple minutes to remount the door, with perfect alignment.

A few words of caution: The Mustang door hinge is 3/8" thick, and the nut plate is 1/4" thick, so that is a lot of meat to drill and tap a 1/4" hole, use sharp tools and back the tap off when the going gets tough. It also needs to be removed a time or two to clean it off. 1/4x20 tap needs 7/32" drill bit for steel.

Also, when the car is reassembled the door will sag a little from the weight of the glass and other parts inside the door. But keep in mind that with all the adjustments the old cars have, only one will be affected by the added weight to the door, and that is controlled by the top hinge to body location. So before installing the door for the last time, remove the pins on that upper hinge to body location, and replace them with only one 1/4" bolt. Tighten it finger tight, then just cut the head off, leaving some "stick out" past the installed hinge so it can be removed after installing the door. Then it will be easy to remove it and make the adjustment necessary on the heavier door.



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:22 pm
I like the idea and I even gave it a shot when plying with the doors on my 70 Pontiac project.
I will try again!!!!!

I Broke my Tap! after drilling Yes I was using the right size drill bit just got a Little bit of a hurry on the inner plate its made of Harder steel and Snap! I knew better.
Still need to order the correct size Walton Tap extractor to get it out.
I am sure most here have never even heard Walton tap extractors before.
https://www.amazon.com/Walton-Tools-180 ... 4399&psc=1

You still gotta use Patients with them though they are not the save all many give them credit for take your time go slow or they will bend and become useless.
But they do work! saved my Butt many times.

If they don't work you'll need Carbide drill for Tool steel Very expensive.
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2023 12:22 am
Yes, good write-up.

Only thing I'd add is that if the hinges are shimmed then bag and tag the shims, including alignment if necessary.

Also, if you're doing a full concourse de elegance restoration then these extra bolts/holes need to be filled, which can present some problems.
Chris



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2023 5:59 am
Glad you like it guys.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2023 8:14 am
Very nice write up..... would have saved me some time on one of my Fiero projects years ago.... those "little" doors weighed just over 100 pounds and are small to grip..... great knowledge as usual....
Metal, wood, fiberglass, we work it all... www.furniturephysicians.com We can restore the irreplaceable!



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2023 8:59 am
NFT5 wrote: if you're doing a full concourse de elegance restoration then these extra bolts/holes need to be filled, which can present some problems.


No one here is at that level lol BUT we can all try lol
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.
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