70 firebird major rust repair & Rotissory questions

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:05 pm
OK well I tried to get an older thread revived and going first for this now I'm asking publicly is their a correct way to prepare a car before cutting on it like for a Trunk pan replacement? should it be all shored up on jack stands and leveled out? front to back and side to side or should it be left on its wheels? I have been around here for a while and I don't recall any one asking this one?
If so were should the car be supported and where should the measurements be taken?


Also I am considering buying a Rotissory for these project's and I am curious If they really hold a Unibody car square while performing this type of work you don't see them in Major body shops but major body shops don't all do restorations either.
Ya I know they have door braces for them while the doors are off but do they HOLD the car square?

I saw on another well known web sight one of our members here Did full floors trunk pan both quarters with trunk drop offs and he didn't use a dang Rotissory and his work is fantastic.

I just don't wanna mess up a repairable car by not asking some stupid questions, I have done a bunch of aircraft heavy structure repairs and we always shore up and square the aircraft first. A car should be too. NO?

I am contemplating the removal of the rear Tail panels to install new whole trunk pan's. Both cars require the same repairs basicly both need trunk pans Trunk drop offs and rear lower quarters.
The Rear tail panel is secured with spot welds inside and out and is actually two panels welded together witch is secured into the car with a million other spot welds inside and out.
Can this panel be removed with out terminally damaging the car?
It appears to me That this piece is a major part of the structure and Removing it is actually a bad idea???
This piece is actually being made currently so that tells me It can be replaced

Maybe I should just say the heck with it and just cut the new Trunk pan up in smaller pieces and weld it all together inside the car instead of trying to get it all in there in one piece? hate doing that way tho just seams like the wrong way to do it.
Last edited by Doright on Thu May 16, 2013 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 12:11 pm
Cars
71 Fire bird sorry sun and camera weren't working well together this day. This car's trunk and rear lower quarters are worse than the one im starting on. I didn't get a key to open the trunk but from looking up laying on the ground it looks worse than the 70 to make matter worse it was cut up to make into a race car at one time but looks repairable more on this car latter.

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OK now the 70 work already in progress

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Hood needs work
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Nose is bent I don't know if I can get it straitened or not??????
Had good grills tho
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Interior shot but had a used Black Dash with only one small crack, seats are ok needing covers but for wrong year bird. most pieces that are or were in the interior are a mixed match of parts from multiple years.
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Then the Rust
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This aint pretty some with week stomachs might wanna look the other way

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How the heck you do this?
Never seen some one do that to a shock that's abuse period.
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After a bit of wire wheel this pan is done so are the drop offs. but the rear tail panel actually looks nice and solid so are the frame rails short of one spot on left one that needs a small patch from some one trying to weld a exhaust hanger to it. :(

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Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 6:28 pm
Awesome to see a couple of birds being done, I imported a '71 formula 400 for my wife last year and we LOVE it. keep the updates and progress pic's coming :goodjob:

Looks like you got lucky with your rear chassis rail sections, I've been told all of the '70's birds and comaro's rust badly there (ours needed doing when we got it). seeing that you don't need to remove the rear chassis rails and you don't need to remove the top section of the rear panel I think the pan replacement should be relatively straight forward and could be done with the car on it's wheels or chassis stands. As you don't need to remove nearly as much steel as you initially thought, bracing probably won't be an issue either.

best of luck with it



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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:56 am
Its not as bad as I thought I did some more cleaning and trimming out rust yesterday.
Yes frame rails are still ok but they do need some cleaning, Looks like just a Pan and some drop offs.
Dennis Barnett
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 8:09 am
I would rather have somebody beat me half to death than to work on something like that! What a mess!

You must really enjoy working on cars........
"The number of parasites in the USA has now eclipsed the number of productive members of society"


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 2:25 pm
Rick
I replaced the whole bottom of my 68 mustang.If you want one that hasnt been restored or hack patched this is just what you have to do.
Im sure you have done it a few times yourself. You are right it stinks getting past the bad metal. You have to clean the rusty metal out of your ears daily! Its a bad job but someone has to doit.
I guess you guys get cars in your shop that the metalwork has been replaced and you get the gravy of painting it.:rotfl: Just funnin Rick
The payoff is when its done and you have the satisfaction of driving it.
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:17 am
Before you start to weld in any new metal you need to get the frame jacked up and precisely level. The spring mounts at the rear would be a good place to start and level them across the car. Find another structural spot at the front and level them across the car. With those two planes parallel the length will take care of itself.

Attack your rust panels one at a time.

I built a rotisserie but it is just long enough for truck cabs. I use the body mounting holes to mount the cab to the rotisserie.
Gale Gorman
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 11:38 am
musdang22 wrote:Rick
I replaced the whole bottom of my 68 mustang.If you want one that hasnt been restored or hack patched this is just what you have to do.
Im sure you have done it a few times yourself. You are right it stinks getting past the bad metal. You have to clean the rusty metal out of your ears daily! Its a bad job but someone has to doit.
I guess you guys get cars in your shop that the metalwork has been replaced and you get the gravy of painting it.:rotfl: Just funnin Rick
The payoff is when its done and you have the satisfaction of driving it.
Mike



Ya He says that yet he lives in Florida and restores cars for a living he knows all to well what Rust is about! I'm sure.
I bet he has done these exact repairs to this series of car 100 times & knows EXACTLY what has to be done to the car before during and after and in what order! difference between back yard hobbyist and a pro. I'M an Aircraft mechanic always have been always will be cars are just a hobby. I'm guilty of over doing over thinking and opening my mouth when I should keep it shut! so I really don't blame him or other Pro's for being mumm on my questions after all this is how they make money why should any of them just give away there information and experience to help me?

Neither of These car's are really all that bad to me, BUT I have never done the repairs tho either! and to tell you the truth I don't think I really need a rotisserie for the trunk pan repairs either that would spell disaster in my mind. But After the new trunk pan is in their Its just what to do to the rest of the bottom of the car after the trunk repairs are done? It sure would be nice to go to the next level and turn it over for cleaning and Paint and If I were to do that then that would make a few of the necessary harder to get to welds on the whole job on the bottom of the car even easier to get too if it were on a Rotisserie after the majority of the work was completed sitting on the floor level.

I wish I had access to one of those Online Car Manual system's, I'm sure a chassis manual or Body manual for these cars would help me a lot. I know a guy who owns a Body shop I have never asked too see his manuals maybe he will let me take a peak and give me a few pointers as well I know he has done his share of rust repairs on these old F bodies.
Dennis Barnett
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 12:03 pm
gale wrote:Before you start to weld in any new metal you need to get the frame jacked up and precisely level. The spring mounts at the rear would be a good place to start and level them across the car. Find another structural spot at the front and level them across the car. With those two planes parallel the length will take care of itself.

Attack your rust panels one at a time.

I built a rotisserie but it is just long enough for truck cabs. I use the body mounting holes to mount the cab to the rotisserie.



At this point I plan on leveling the Rear of the car at the Rear springs front mount side to side and removing the Sub frame up front and leveling the front side to side off of at the forward Sub frame mounts.
The problem comes in wear do you check with a level side to side? do I want to use like a 3x3 steal bar across the bottom of the car on jack stands (I don't think so because I know my floor isn't level?) or do I wanna leval off say the rear package shelf of the car in the rear and off the Dash board in the front? or do I wanna use a different points?
Front to rear I get by checking off the top of the rocker panels (I THINK????) or am I supposed to check it in another place?????

Isn't their a set in stone place to take measurements from on each different car? their is for airplanes :knockout:
or am I just over thinking this :whoops: :knockout: :flatten:
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:44 pm
Thanks for the advise every one

I wasn't expecting the Trunk drop offs to be on back order that's gonna slow me down.
But there's still plenty to do till they get here, sorry forgot to take pics of all the new parts I will try to get some more pics up soon.


Here's a few pic's
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I got this panel its the inner tail panel will see how well the new one fits
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Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.
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