1953 Puch 175SV Split single project

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:49 am
Hey my name is Ed i'm a 25 year old from Australia! this is my first proper paint project.

I've had a 1953 (first production year) Puch 175SV split single motorcycle in my shed for a few years now, got it running originally then back benched it until I could afford restoration.

The main $ cost being parts from Austria (63c on the aussie dollar) brutal! and chrome, as you can see fair amount of chrome on there probably going to be close to $1500 worth based on quotes so far.

Bike is going to be as close to original resto as I can get it.

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Just thought I'd start a project thread its my first time shooting with guns, I've done a lot of good rattle can jobs (oxymoron right)

I am gonna run an Anest Iwata AZ3 HTE2 1.8mm for an acrylic laquer paint job.
ppg single stage etch
valspar acrylic primerfiller
valspar acrylic basecoat - no clear to keep authentic to original sheen.

the colour RAL 5024 - pastel blue (original)
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I'm doing everything except chrome myself.

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bit of the zinc plating that is going into this job - diy zinc is fun!

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most of the bits I got professionally blasted just too big for my cabinet, I did the smalls.

today got stuck into welding up holes in he bodywork drilled over the last 60 years

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some spaz cut the chainguard up with a grinder to get the chain off/on sadumb tigged it up, this is after grinding down 1 side.

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couple more holes

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the main frame section, 2k polyester on the spot weld dimples where the frame parts were assembled together. havent knocked the filler down in that photo

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well this photo didnt work very well, rear guard getting a patch in. have never patched before so was a bit of learning experience.


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this is the only part of the paint job causing me anxiety lol, paint over chrome, and pinstriping. should be epic learning though haha. if its gonna be too hard i'll offload it to a pro.

will hopefully be shooting the etch and primer on in the next few days...



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:05 am
Cool Project
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:03 pm
Nice Bike Good Luck



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:35 am
primed most of the smalls the other day with etch primer.

few things i've learnt about spraying with a proper gun, I definitely know how to get a good result out of a can haha as in getting an even coat minimal dry spray etc, but seriously with acrylic laquer in the can its a narrow spray pattern, low pressure and controllable compared to a proper gun which just blazes!

I spent the time dialing in the fan and the fluid control to get an even pattern, hand span width at hand span from work is great advice but I think the initial problem was pressure was too low for the paint, I was running 29psi whereas the primer (etch) thinned at 4primer:1thinner was too thick so was getting a really rough finish. I reduced the ratio to 3:1 and got way better. I didnt realise the tds wanted between 35-45psi but I was just using 29psi as I thought that was the recommended pressure for the AZ3 HTE2 irrespective of paint but I now believe that was pretty dumb...

Good to see that professional acrylic laquer is much more durable than can stuff by at least 100x haha,the solvents flash out way better and you get better coverage.

anyway you really gotta have your things secured or they blow everywhere 30psi in a fan is a lot of air! lol and 30psi stirs up dust from everywhere! spraying over dirt is like the dumbest thing I think ive ever done.

few problems with runs from just not enough light and few dry sprays with first few passes but otherwise ok

need to do acrylic primer filler and sand...

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bit more polyester filler work to be done on the last few large parts that need etch.

hopefully will finish the etch primer tomorrow and start the primer filler. then it will be lots and lots of sanding to get it nice for topcoat. Will prob do a practice panel or two before shooting it.



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:47 am
etch primer done moved on to acrylic primer.

I had a lot of problems with the etch and was a bit worried about how the acrylic primer was going to lay down.

set the gun up and tested it and adjusted the spray pattern and fluid flow and wow the results were much better. no matter what I did I just couldnt get the etch to spray right.

I didnt pre sand any of the shocking dry spray I had done with the etch primer and I'm glad I didnt bother in a way.

3 wet coats later and the primer has flattened everything right out. I will need to do some brief sanding to try and remove a few imperfections but it really went down well.

The thing about primer that I hate but also love is you notice all of the tiny pinholes etc that are going to cause you problems which are just impossible to see when the thing is at bare metal after being sandblasted... this is a pain because once acrylic is done you cant use body filler!
(next time i'm going to use DTM epoxy - sprays directly to metal, 2 pack high build can putty under or over it!)

anyway so I have a fair bit of sanding to do overall. I guess a few areas will need respray of primer to get really nice.

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pretty happy with todays progress. I've got the hang of the gun quickly which is good.

I have a few small pieces that wont need much in the way of sanding to get them spot on, I am going to hit these with the blue as a trial run to see how nice I can get it off the gun. I dont want to have to wetsand if at all possible I know you usually have to buff to get super high gloss but the original paint job was never flat/glossy.



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:32 am
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more sanding and whatever lol stupid iphone locked on some weird filter taking crappy photoss haha

anyway sanded everything with p800 and shot with another 2 fairly wet coats of primer (blended) where there were deep pits and 1 total coat at the end to blend

I thought the paint laid down nicely on top of the dry spray etch, came out so good on the p800, as I laid it on I was full frothing!!!!..

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pastelblau! looks so mint


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happy with the colour match considering age/fade etc...

cant wait to shoot this tomorrow. the funny thing the guys at the paint shop said when I commented on how nicely the valspar 1k primer laid down and heavy too (for an acrylic ) was that it was the 'general thinners' are really good...

they are made in bulk in melbourne and everyone uses them now, the quality is good and the price is better. $20 for 5 liters (for a random customer) and they were saying a lot of the auto guys use these general thinners for top coat and they work as good if not better than the the PPG AAA thinners which are 2.5x the price. I'll be interested to test their comments on that! anyway well see with the next day or two how it goes down!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:55 pm
Don't use GP or even the Multi-Mid thinners for acrylic top coats. They dry much too fast and you won't get the flow out that you want. Strongly recommend the Dulon AAA - it's all I use for acrylic top coats and you'll find that you will get a flatter finish with much better gloss.
Chris



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:07 am
hey chris!

thats what I said to the paint guys as I remember you telling me a while back..

the owner of the shop here in ballarat says the resolve MP thinners are really good and that his customers have told him they cant tell the difference between the AAA thinners and these resolve MP thinners.

He seemed pretty genuine, he said he could sell me the expensive stuff and make more money but he genuinely recommends it as being just as good.

I didnt wanna sound rude but I asked him twice, I said i'm looking for best gloss off the gun and he stuck with it.

Maybe hes making more on the locally bought thinners but I doubt he would risk his rep for 10 bucks..

so what I am going to do - as I already have general thinners is do a test piece. if I am not happy with the result I will go and pay the price for the ppg AAA thinners.

chris do you know a price range for 1 or 4L of the AAA>?

cheers

Ed



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:16 am
more painting today

did a lot of sanding to get the parts flat some will need a final run over with primer --- deep holes I really should have been more thorough with the body filler stage lol

anyway the weather started going bad but I couldnt wait I wanted to see what this colour looked like and so I shot two parts that I had not sanded as they are mostly hidden structures where final finish isnt critical...

anyway I only used 100ml of paint thinned with general purpose thinners at 1:1.5 so that gave me 250ml to work with, not a lot of paint only managed to get barely 2 coats on...

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blurry photo, but you can see ok gloss but fair amount of peel

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you can see in this photo, the top part of the seat isnt glossy as I only got 1 coat on there and it was reasonably dry/the primer had not been knocked down. the hinge part under the seat is glossier because I hit it with 2 coats but I hadnt sanded this piece either - reasonably happy with the finish on that as in less peel...

Now before I jump to PPG Dulon AAA thinners I am going to wait for better weather and spray a few pieces that have been knocked down with P800 and do a proper 3 wet coats and see how it flattens out, if I'm not 100% happy I willl try the expensive thinners.

I was running 28psi at the gun (recommended by IWATA), handspan fan (2 turns out) and fluid 2 turns out.. paint seemed to be going on evenly. The 1k binder calls for 26-30psi for panel repair and 34-40psi for overall respray.
I guess the question is - should I run the valspar rec pressure?
- lower psi - less dry spray /overspray but worse atomisation right?
- should I run higher psi?

also using an IWATA AZ3 HTE2 w 1.8mm tip, I have another AZ3 with 1.3mm tip should I be using that for the acrylic colour coat?

so thoughts on improving this finish? aside from the more expensive thinners and better technique, I think I have a bit more room to lay it on a bit wetter.

Thanks as always guys! :happy: I'm having a lot of fun!



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:44 pm
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so painted with the 1.8mm az3 hte2, with regular thinners - 2 coats. I have a reasonable amount of fine peel but no runs and still good gloss at half a meter.

think the hardest thing was not having enough light to see how thick it was going on - an overcast day, and a bit windy too. I didnt want runs so I erred on the dry side of caution.

I am not sure whether or not I should do acrylic lacquer clear to get more gloss, some more depth and less peel. I wasnt going to originally but I dont want to layer more coats of paint, clear is way cheaper than color.... I think if I am going to cut and buff I have to do clear cos there isnt enough material on the job for wet sanding.

1L colour is $55, 4L is $220 whereas 1L of clear is $25, 4L = $88



if you have a look at the tank pic a few pages back you can see how peely the original paint was.
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