1959 Squarebird

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:58 am
Well at least you got a cool project car no matter what you do with it!
Lots of guys here that have been playing the restoration Paint game for a long time, Look forward to following along with your project Keep the pics coming!
Dennis B.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:25 pm
OldFatBald wrote:That is a sharp car and looks like a fun project.

I'd stay away from the top, there is a lot going on when chopping a roof.

But since you have it that far apart, I would raise the tunnel and bag that car. I love the way my Caddy rides with bags at all four corners. Add wide whitewalls with the factory hubcaps or wire wheels!!! Wu hu!

You can cut and raise the factory sheetmetal tunnel - don't forget to add some reinforcement at the cross braces. That is what I did the first go around on my car.

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Or...like my second time around, you can form a complete new piece(s) for a more radical drop.


That wouldn’t be a bad idea, from what I’m told the factory consol will not fit any longer if I raise the tunnel. Here is a picture of a photo I pulled off the internet.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:32 pm
Out everything, I found this (see pictures) I can buy a replacement from someone whom makes these for about $140 shipped to factory specs. Would you do this? Or cut out and replace with sheet metal? Seems reasonably priced to me. This is the lower radiator support.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:20 pm
I would replace the metal, But in order to repair you need to get to good clean solid metal to weld too, what you see on exterior surface will go a lot deeper or further on the inside surface than what your seeing on the outside surface.
The back side Or inside pieces will have issues that goes further up inside and it too must be removed.
When welding you need clean both sides front and back side, its important to clean the backside just as well as the top side of both pieces being welded to get a good solid weld and insure that the rust has been removed.
When dealing with rust its imperative to fully remove it, It must be removed by physical means, In order of my preference cutting it out or cutting off and welding new metal, Blasting with media (Glass is my preferred media), or Wire wheels and Sanding disks and then there are Chemicals all are Tools in the arsenal of weapons against corrosion each has its benefits and limits of effectiveness.

When welding Chemically treated metals its important to fully remove any residues left behind on the surface of the metal left behind by the chemical treatments, such as the ones I use turn Iron Oxide into Iron Phosphate And coat the surface with Zinc phosphate coating preventing future corrosion. This coating must be removed before I weld.
Residues and surface treatments can give off dangerous gasses and impart impurity's into the weld making it weak and porous and generally make it difficult to weld in my experience.
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:36 pm
For $140 I would say go for it. It will take a lot less time than trying to replace all that rust.

As for the console, you may be able to modify it if the tunnel isn't raised a whole bunch.
I would hang on to it until you get the tunnel done.
1968 Coronet R/T


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:31 am
Thanks for the kudos, guys!
Yes, chopping the top does require quite a bit of metalworking/welding skill. Lots of planning, and measuring, too. The front can be cut, but you must be very certain not to alter the opening, so that when you cut the windshield, it will fit. Not easy with a curved glass shield! The front glass can be cut, it's laminated, though most glass shops won't touch the curved ones. There are several ways to safely cut curved glass, so I won't go into it here.
The rear windshield is tempered, so it can't be cut. Mot guys tend to cut the surround out, and lay the whole opening down to match the new height of the roof. This also helps, in that you usually have to make the roof longer as you cut it down. Laying the roof down adds inches, so you don't have to add filler strips to the long, flat area of the roof. You really don't want to weld these up, if you're not a hammer welding expert! Laying the window forward sometimes does not give you the length you need to match the roof, so it is easier to just cut the bottom, and move the entire surround to where you want it, and extend, or fabricate a new catwalk.
Besides these issues. side glass on you car might be flat laminated,, so it's easy to make templates and get new glass cut. Stainless trim is the next biggest hurdle, cutting and welding it is another difficult job, needing talent in welding , and a TIG welder.
Chopping any car besides a Model T, A or early 30's car is a chore, so choose wisely!



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:57 pm
Chopolds Very informative! Lots of info I didn't know! especially the rear glass part!
Is it possible for you to give us some Idea how much some one may expect to pay for a job like this including the glass and trim? start to finish ? just a good ball park idea?

This is a skill I wish I knew how to do
Dennis B.
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:18 am
Dennis, this question is often asked by customers, and on internet forums. The answer is: Who Knows?
Every car is different. Different challenges in chopping. Doing a 50 Merc 3 inches is less costly than doing it 5 inches. Angling the "B" pillars adds cost. Hardtop conversion adds cost. If the wraparound windshield in the rear cannot be laid down (due to sharp corners) and a different one substituted, more cost. The cheaper car brands use less stainless, less cost. Wraparound front windshields, way more! Sometimes you actually have to cut the windshield, then build some of the roof around it. Then modify the stainless around it, as well. Angling the front windshield for a more streamlined look, more cost, besides the windshield area, you have to cut and modify the vent windows to do this.
Roughly: Simple square body type car (Model A) between 2500 and 5000. Mildly curvy car, like a 50 Chevy, 4500-6000 ( without the more involved changes, i.e. angled "B"s). Super curvy cars, like a 40 Ford, you have to fabricate a lot of metal because cutting curves, you can't easily realign them properly, you replace, with different curvature, so 8000 and up. Difficult car. like a 59 Chevy, w/wraparounds, 8000 and up. These prices ballpark the cars putting them in primer, not paint.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:56 pm
The guys over at Squarebirds.org are guiding me through a rack and pinion swap including a an aftermarket steering column as these have the shaft to the gearbox,


Be very careful.....I've done this on a '55 Fairlane using a Unisteer unit.

I hate it......Yea it steers good going down the road....But it changed the turning radius. Its a much larger radius at full lock. No one at Unisteer mentions this....It's dangerous. Lets say you need to make a U turn on a divided 4 lane hwy. You would have to go all the way across and onto the shoulder....Now if there was a curb there.....You'd have to back up....


So run that by them.



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:51 am
Warthog5 wrote:
The guys over at Squarebirds.org are guiding me through a rack and pinion swap including a an aftermarket steering column as these have the shaft to the gearbox,


Be very careful.....I've done this on a '55 Fairlane using a Unisteer unit.

I hate it......Yea it steers good going down the road....But it changed the turning radius. Its a much larger radius at full lock. No one at Unisteer mentions this....It's dangerous. Lets say you need to make a U turn on a divided 4 lane hwy. You would have to go all the way across and onto the shoulder....Now if there was a curb there.....You'd have to back up....


So run that by them.


I do understand this, the rack I am using is from a cavalier, I have dealt with too many of the old power units and usually end up just setting them up manual. So why not give the power rack a shot. If I don’t like it, it’s nothing to swap back. This will also allow for better header clearance which I do need.
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