Candies for a Rookie

Discuss custom painting, artwork and airbrushing

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:36 pm
PainterDave wrote:hard to say buddy.
i dont use IC often.
but 30 minutes might be better.


But you must be using BC a lot? And aren't they the same (basically)?

Isn’t the DBC500 that you use an IC?

I have read a few posts about cross-linking and to wait long enough for the solvents to dry out, but not during the cross-linking process???

The TDS of the IC that I am using says:
Allow to flash 5-10 minutes between coats. After final coat application allow to flash at least 30 minutes but no more than 24 hours before application of a 2K polyurethane clear.

* What I still don’t understand is how long I can wait to add more IC (or BC in those other cases) – Is there a different Max time between coats of IC or BC?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:47 pm
I knew that I had read it somewhere! Didn’t have to look to far, just had to reread my own thread…

BeoBob wrote:Here is a compilation on what I have learned about flake and candy.

…Basecoat clear (BBC) (intercoat, binder, whatever the name of the day) is the stuff to use for candy graphics. I have been using the Sherwin Williams BBC with good luck recently.

Tape off your paterns (different discussion). Start with one medium coat of the BCC without any candy to lock the masking down. this helps prevent the candy from creeping under the tape. Let that flash good and the proceed with colors. Light coats until you get the intensity you are looking for. Let that flash good, then spray a couple of medium coats of the BCC over the color to protect it for when you need to scuff for final clear or when you screw up and have to sand overspray off it…

Watch your recoat windows!!!!!!!! There is a time frame where you can spray over fresh basecoat and you are all good. Then there is a period where you can't because the paint is in the middle of cross-linking and if you lay another coat down it will wrinkle on you. After the cross-linking is done you have another period where you are all good and don't have to scuff. If you wait too long you will need to scuff, but with out the clear BCC over the candy scuffing is not a good idea. That why I do the BCC over the color. So I can wait until the next morning to do cleanups, touch-ups, scuff, and clear...
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:23 am
OldFatBald wrote:
PainterDave wrote:hard to say buddy.
i dont use IC often.
but 30 minutes might be better.


But you must be using BC a lot? And aren't they the same (basically)?

Isn’t the DBC500 that you use an IC?

I have read a few posts about cross-linking and to wait long enough for the solvents to dry out, but not during the cross-linking process???

The TDS of the IC that I am using says:
Allow to flash 5-10 minutes between coats. After final coat application allow to flash at least 30 minutes but no more than 24 hours before application of a 2K polyurethane clear.

* What I still don’t understand is how long I can wait to add more IC (or BC in those other cases) – Is there a different Max time between coats of IC or BC?



basecoats dont crosslink buddy
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:59 am
PainterDave wrote: ...basecoats dont crosslink buddy


* Ok, How long I can wait to add more IC (or BC in those other cases) – Is there a max time between coats of IC or BC?

* If the material's data sheets says a 5-10 flash time, does it hurt to wait 30 minutes or an hour between coats of base or inter coat?


I know with clears, I want the coat tacky not stringy before another coat, my question is just on the BC/IC materials.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:05 pm
basecoat generally can be piled on top coat after coat.

no raising issues. im guessing you may have trapped some solvent somewhere in this process.

yes you can wait up to 24 hours usually between coats without sanding.

this seems to be a pretty touchy subject because it is very hard to know what happened.

get some cheap clear and start locking stuff down with that.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:10 pm
PainterDave wrote:basecoat generally can be piled on top coat after coat.

no raising issues. im guessing you may have trapped some solvent somewhere in this process.

yes you can wait up to 24 hours usually between coats without sanding.

Thanks for the clarification!


this seems to be a pretty touchy subject because it is very hard to know what happened.

Yeah, I should have taken a couple of pics - I was too pi$$ed off at myself at the time!


get some cheap clear and start locking stuff down with that.

I did! but I think that I may have sanded into the previous BC!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:28 pm
Yep, have experienced the same problem multiple times with intercoat clears. Luckily haven’t seen it in a while. HOK SG-100 was the worst. I threw half a qt of it away, pissed me off sooooo bad.

It usually happens when I am trying to rush a step. Can be caused by a number of things... Spraying in the sun, spraying a hot surface (sun again), spraying the next coat too soon, spraying it on too thick, using the wrong temp reducer for the situation. Definitely increases the risk when you sand through a layer.

All of them boil down to the same thing. Fresh solvents getting underneath a previously fully cured layer.

I have intercoat clear wrinkle basecoat for none of the reasons above. Painter Dave knows a lot more than me about the chemical processes that happen during the painting process. But as a rule of thumb if it takes more than 30 minutes for me to get the next coat down I will wait about 2 hours. All dependent on temperature. But here is the way it has been explained to me… when you spray down BC the solvents attack the existing surface. As the solvents evaporate a chemical bond between the existing surface and the BC starts to form. If you spray the next coat before this process is fully under way you just reset the clock with each application. If you spray another coat once the bonding process is well under way, but before the BC is fully cured, the solvents can penetrate the fresh BC easily and break these bonds. That’s when you get wrinkles going on. Once the BC cures out good it will resist the fresh solvent from the next coat of BC (as long as you don’t do the things above) and new bonds will be created between the fresh BC and the surface of the previous layer.

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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:39 am
dont forget you using that 1.7 is dumping more material than you are supposed to.

in the custom world we tweek and do things that are not "standard procedure" for the paints we use. ive learned a lot of what you can and cant do in the custom world.

there seems to be very little we cant do if you take your time.

this bike took me about two months just doing it in my free time. but also because i gave everything extra dry time. sometimes a week between steps. but im confident there wont be any problems
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:37 am
PainterDave wrote:dont forget you using that 1.7 is dumping more material than you are supposed to.

Does a 1.7 vs a 1.3 tip really put out that much more material?


there seems to be very little we cant do if you take your time.

this bike took me about two months just doing it in my free time. but also because i gave everything extra dry time. sometimes a week between steps. but im confident there wont be any problems


Yeah, now I'm wishing that I had put another layer of clear over my test panel prior to taping it off. Oh well, we will see how it goes!

* Do you think that I can use a fast reducer? My air temps are the low 70s

BTW, nice job on the flame layout! It is tougher than it looks to get the size of the flames and licks correct.
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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:08 pm
OldFatBald wrote:
PainterDave wrote:dont forget you using that 1.7 is dumping more material than you are supposed to.

Does a 1.7 vs a 1.3 tip really put out that much more material?


there seems to be very little we cant do if you take your time.

this bike took me about two months just doing it in my free time. but also because i gave everything extra dry time. sometimes a week between steps. but im confident there wont be any problems


Yeah, now I'm wishing that I had put another layer of clear over my test panel prior to taping it off. Oh well, we will see how it goes!

* Do you think that I can use a fast reducer? My air temps are the low 70s

BTW, nice job on the flame layout! It is tougher than it looks to get the size of the flames and licks correct.



i use a 1.6 for flake then lock it down with clear,

yes i use fast myself and usually accelerate my clear as well
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