Hosted by our own DarrelK - the place to learn about Turbine spray systems.
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I purchased this Showtime 99 turbine system from TpTools and just not happy with the way it sprays. What I was wondering if it would be worth it to upgrade the 3-stage to 5/6 stage motor? I pulled the cover off today to see what was in the unit. Any suggestions or guidance would be appreciated.
Well, the short answer is a resounding HELL YES..... Sorry about that I just get excited when we talk about upgrading to 6 stages. So just looking at how tight they have that 3 stage in there the only minor problem I see is that you may need to do some cutting/fabbing to open up your box. With the 3 additional stages it is taller. So this is the turbine you want.... https://us.rs-online.com/product/ametek ... /71922320/ That is currently the best price on the planet for that unit however, please note that it is backordered presently. It's not that big of a deal as they constantly have them on order so I'd just call and see what time lag you are looking at. There are of course other places to buy however you are probably looking at almost double the pricing. They were also on Ebay and Amazon but it looks like those new/old stock units may have dried up. Here is the last link on Amazon that I had... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YLB6MRW/?c ... _lig_dp_it It was about $400 a year ago.
Okay, so if you have a TP unit you probably have their Sicmo clone gun which should really work well with the 6 stage set up. Oh, and if you can't fit that in your box simply build a new box.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8BtjcgxbEA&t=71s
Darrel thanks for the quick reply. I have found a reasonably priced motor that is 5-stage. Electro Motor Q6600-099A Vacuum 5 Stage 120 volt 5.7in for $260 that is available. I will probably go with this motor since after talking with the guys over at RS said that that motor would be made to order and be over the 20-week mark. Need to get this project done sooner than later. Not worried about fabbing the existing box if needed since that is what I do all the time with restoring the 67-72 Chevy trucks that I rebuild. If not I will draw something up in CAD and cut it on my CNC machine.
Any thoughts on the motor listed above?
Also while doing research I ran into an article from a guy that has built a few and uses two motors to get to 10PSI.
Here are the instructions he posted on Fine Woodworking:
Here are the instructions:
- Motors are both Ametek 5.7” dia., by-pass tangential discharge
- three stage #116765-00
- two stage #119-412-13
- both are rated 500 hour average life
- Ametek also makes 7.2” dia. motors with a 700 hour average life. Make sure the motors are “by-pass” design NOT “flow thru”. By-pass have a fan on the commutator end to help cool the motor.
- The 1/2” MDF box is 17” x 9” x 12 1/2” for the motors listed. If different motors are used resize the box.
- Air filter is a Fram #CA3915. The two round filters are non woven nylon scuff pads cut to fit over the cooling fans.
- Two 15 amp on/off switches
- Use a 12 ga. power cord.
- The box just holds the motors and filters. It’s a cut and fit to build operation. The output of the two stage is connected to the input of the three stage. The three is bolted to the center divider over a 2” hole and the two is bolted to the back panel. The outlet of the two is press fit into the divider hole. The two stage holes for the cooling fans, with the nylon pads, are rabbeted to hold the filters. You can use any method or type of filters, they are for course material, not like the Fram type. The main Fram filter is over a 2” hole. Build a frame for it and screw it to the box.
- Hose connector. Use a metal funnel cut to fit over the outlet of the three stage and use silicone to seal it. The other end is cut to accept a hose connector. I use a 3/4” PVC threaded male hose pipe epoxied to the funnel.
- Wire a switch to each motor and connect them in parallel to the power cord. DON’T wire the motors in series, they will run half speed.
- I purchase motors from Nationwide Sales and Service 800-555-4493, http://www.shopnss.com. If you have a Granger catalog , they list specs. on the motors but their prices are high. Go to the Ametek web site and check specs. and dealers. Get a three stage with high “lift” spec. Those will produce the highest psi.
- I use a bleeder type gun. If a non-bleed gun is used, a relief valve can be installed at the hose to box connection. It will open when the trigger is not pressed and close when in use.
So first let's address the two motor thing.... this was tried back in 1984 or so by Capspray. They wanted a heavy duty contractors grade set up for pro house painters. They used two turbines in a large wheeled box connected together with a single air pathway going to a fan cooled intercooler. In their extensive testing they found that too much heat was being developed and that the air had to go through that intercooler to make it "managable." They also found that they had to have a small compressor on board to separately feed enough pressure for the pot gun they were using....
Keep this simple....there is no problem with the 5 stage unit you are considering. For every turbine stage you make about 1.5 to 2.0 of pressure so a 5 stage is going to be a minimum of 7.5 to a max. of 10 psi which is very doable for just about anything short of high build 2k primers. Honestly, I'd rather see that kind of stuff shot through a cheap primer gun anyway. A 6 stage just gives you more flexibility in hose length or hard plumbing a unit far away from an area to keep things quieter. We have my wood shop's unit plumbed over to another room. You only hear the light hiss of the bleeder as you finish. I have about 50 feet of hose I can run with my portable 6 stage when we do cars....
So I finally received the new 5-stage motor and decided to just build another spray rig instead of just updating the TP tools unit I already own. I will be posting pictures of the build process soon and do some testing.
I do have a couple of simple questions that I have searched all over the interweb and can't seem to find the information.
1. Is it possible to install a pressure regulator on the output of the motor in case I wanted to turn down the air volume? Similar to the Fuji Q5 setup.
2. What is the best turbine spray gun for doing paint work on cars?
3. Can other standard HVLP spray guns be converted for a turbine?
1. This is easy....let's put that control up where the hose attaches to gun for more convenience... it is just a simple hose shut off like this... https://www.amazon.com/Orbit-56738-Coup ... r=8-7&th=1 Just go to Home Depot and find the lightest and most compact model.
2. If you have the TP gun from your other setup it is a clone of the old Sicmo guns which I have about 5 of, second choice for a good reasonable dedicated gun would be the Sprayfine gun in either siphon or gravity model... https://www.turbineproducts.com/sprayfi ... iphon-cup/ The gravity version is the same price. The tip sets that would be helpful are the 1.0 and 1.3.
3.Nope, no can do.... Seen at least a half dozen attempts over the last 40 years and none worked right. Turbine guns are the exact opposite in operations. HVLP compressed air guns use high pressure and low CFM while turbine guns use low pressure and very high CFM.
Thanks for the quick reply.
I appreciate the answers and was wondering about number 1.
Is there anything out there that might have a gauge on it to know what the pressure actually is?
Something like this I found on Amazon, it has a 3/4" NPT opening so not to restrict flow.
Problem is..... we don't care enough about "pressure" to be concerned about it. Now if someone ever made a gauge that measured CFM for these guns that could be handy but, then you have the fact that any restriction device that is used for turning down the air flow is both reducing pressure and CFM.
Bottom line.... you are trying to make this over complicated. The number of stages is the single most important factor in getting good performance. I rarely ever use the valve to turn down air flow......
Finally got around to putting this together. I am about two hours into the build and have only spent money on the 5-stage turbine motor so far. I used a leftover toolbox that I had on a shelf for several years, some scrap metal, nuts and bolts, and an extension cord that was cut off to use for another project.
Still need to secure the insert into the motor output and make a few cooling holes with a secured air cleaner. The motor is mounted and all the wiring and on-off switch are complete. Tested it for a minute and wow this really going to be handy.
Looking good.... just make sure you aren't getting to much "metal vibration" which would be transfer from the turbine to your steel case. When we use high temp plastic tool boxes we don't have any problems with that. Metal to metal can get annoying. Simple fix is to use plumbing gasket sheets cut as needed when you have metal to metal. You can also us Sika 221 Polyurethane sealant here and there.
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