Painting my car with a turbine again for the third time.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2023 4:29 pm
Will it be a charm:)

Story time.
So I have a 240z that I have owned for over 40 years. I’ve painted it three times previously. The first was in a friend’s pro booth and equipment. The second time was probably 10 years later and in my shop with my TP Tools turbine that I think was a two stage unit and ********** epoxy, base and clear. The third time was around 5 years later with my Fuji 4 stage and T75G gun with the same ********** products. It’s now 10ish years later and it’s time for new paint and of course a new turbine sprayer:) I went ahead and built a new 6 stage unit based on some of the ideas I’ve seen here and elsewhere. First thing I want to say is if you can paint a car you can build your own 6 stage turbine. It’s not hard. I’m sticking with the T75G so I set it up as an external bleed. I also added an electronic variable speed control and a pressure gauge. The gauge is inline at the turbine so it’s probably not an accurate representation at the gun but I figured it would be good for repeatability. I chose the electronic speed control vs a valve at the gun to keep the heat down when reducing pressure. Back pressure increases heat whereas reducing the turbine speed doesn’t. At least that’s what I convinced myself when I spent $100.00 on a speed controller:) I’ve used the 6 stage to spray some primer and some lacquer and I have to say 6 stage is the way to go.

So since it’s time to paint again and there is now a forum dedicated to turbine HVLP discussion I figured I would post on my plans and hopefully get some feedback. To say I was winging it the last two times I painted the car would be an understatement. Although I followed all of the mixing directions and the results were satisfactory I really want to try and do a better job this go round. Plus I feel the 6 stage is now putting the turbine on a more equal ground with traditional systems.

I don’t have a booth but I do have a filter panel I put in the front garage door and an exhaust fan in the rear door.

I’m looking for any tip/cap size suggestions as well as any PSI discussion. The adjustable PSI is new to me and considering what I’m spraying WFO may be the best choice.

I’m using the slowest activators and reducers ********** offers. I also have a 5 gal bucket with the coiled garden hose and ice packs to help with the heat.

The materials I’m spraying are ********** epoxy, base and universal clear. I’m also using Evercoat Slick Sand as my high fill.

Both times I have used turbines to paint the car I have run into problems but the advantages of using a turbine in my environment far outweigh the issues I had. One thing I’m hoping to get a handle on is orange peel in the clear after spraying. Last time I shot the car with the 4 stage Fuji I laid the clear out like Barry from ********** suggests. Two wet coats with the recommended flash time between. It looked great for ten minutes or so then a really heavy peel developed. This took a lot of sanding to get out. Barry didn’t have a lot of ideas being as it’s a turbine and turbines are generally frowned upon on their forum.

I do plan on shooting a few test panels this time as I think that the extra cost of material will pay dividends down stream.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you might have.
Derek

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:37 pm
Sounds like a good plan to me. I wish more of the guys that switch to turbine systems would do spray out test panels like this. Just remember, even with a 6 stage a slight amount of tweeking may be needed because all of automotive clears and bases are designed to be shot by compressed air guns. So even though a 6 stage is capable of the same 10 psi cap pressure as most compressed air guns a slight addition of extra reducer may be needed. And of course it goes without saying I would use the slowest of those reducers and hardeners. Also kind of watch the ambient temp.s of "where" you put your turbine when shooting now. Most of the US is seeing cooler temp.s so if you put your turbine outside the building your air temp.s in your hose might not get warm enough for the benefits of turbine air...... Also, do a rough viscosity check if you are not using a Ford cup. Once you have made your mix for your clear stick a clean paint stir stick all the way to the bottom and quickly pull it up just over the top of the cup. Count the seconds before you see the stream coming off the stick change over to "droplets." That should be in the 5 to 7 second range for a 6 stage system. If it's more seconds than that put in 1 to 2% reducer and check it again. If it is under 5 you need to add a little more clear and check it again.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 11:13 am
Hi Darrel
Thanks for the response.
Also kind of watch the ambient temp.s of "where" you put your turbine when shooting now. Most of the US is seeing cooler temp.s so if you put your turbine outside the building your air temp.s in your hose might not get warm enough for the benefits of turbine air......


Is there an ideal air temperature coming out of the gun? Air temperature and viscosity seem to be critical on turbines. I'm in Florida so I'm hoping in a couple weeks the temps will be better. We are still seeing 85 degree highs.

Also, do a rough viscosity check if you are not using a Ford cup


I have a Ford #4 but no data. The spec sheet for the clear and base don't list any Ford numbers. There is a Fuji spec sheet at https://fujispraysystems.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2021/05/Quick-Reference-Sheet-092018-01.jpg that says for automotive clear and a recommended 1.0mm cap you should have 8-17 seconds. That seems to be quite a wide range and more of a suggested starting point. The base is suggested at 1.3mm and 17-25 seconds on the cup.

Can you give me a suggestion on cap size and ford recommendation on the base and clear. It has to be better than my wild **** guess:)


My biggest problem with the turbine information is it's not exactly helpful to people like myself. You know,, Morons:)

I think if you have a good amount of experience with traditional equipment and techniques you can spot the issue and adjust accordingly.

Thanks
Derek

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:43 pm
So here we go....
Is there an ideal air temperature coming out of the gun?
Well, I think auto bases and clears are best kept to air temp. coming out of that hose at about 100 F. The 6 stage units can pretty easily hit 126+ F. If you think you might be having a problem with too much heat try just putting freezer packs near you turbine intake.

Viscosity- Nope, I can't give you much more information there. Fuji is accurately giving you the right ranges there because there is just that much difference in manufacturers products. I can only comment on using the 1.0 for bases and intercoats and the clears could go out to the 1.3. You are just going to have to experiment....

I think if you have a good amount of experience with traditional equipment and techniques you can spot the issue and adjust accordingly. You know you would think that, right? The most successful people that I have trained for spraying woods, metals, etc., had no training or point of reference when trying to achieve good techniques and coatings. Their minds were not contaminated with oh, you do this, don't do that, etc. They watched me spray, used a wet film guage and a viscosity stick, and did many spray out panels while making many adjustments. THAT is the way you learn to use turbine tech.....
Metal, wood, fiberglass, we work it all... www.furniturephysicians.com We can restore the irreplaceable!

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