When gun nozzle size range is specified- you choose….?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:53 am
Hello: I’m a newbie to auto paint (have sprayed lots of nitrocellulose lacquer), and have more equipment than experience at this point. You pull the data sheet on a paint, and you see the nozzle range specified as shown- 1.4-1.7. In this case, it’s mixed as a primer surfacer.

Given the range specified and you having a full range of guns of various nozzle sizes, you then-

1. Grab any gun in the range specified, 1.4 is as good as 1.7 because it is within the range specified.

2. Recognize this is primer surfacer and likely a bit more viscous, and decide to use the larger size in the range to compensate for the viscosity

I ask because I infer an expert can make any nozzle in the range specified work, but a newbie might be better off at one end of the range or the other. I’ve been collecting guns at this point (some will end up on the used market after I figure out what works best for me) and have

Tekna Prolite compliant gun with 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 nozzles
Sharpe FX3000 HVLP with 1.3, 1.4
Summit Racing HVLP primer gun 2.0

I’m wondering about getting a gun with 1.7 nozzle for this type of situation. Is this just a waste of money given what I already own, or is getting something in between the 1.4 and 2.0 range advisable to cover most materials?
Thanks, Dean
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:25 am
sounds like you got the right idea

i might use a 1.4 on a smaller spot that might be sanded with 180

might grab a 1.8 on a few panels or a complete i might even go to a 1.8 / 2.0

they key to success really is achieving the proper mil thickness so pick the gun that you can do that with
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:21 am
And PainterDave said this.....
"the key to success really is achieving the proper mil thickness so pick the gun that you can do that with"
Write that on a wall where your finish....another line to add to it would be, "It's not how you get there, it's how it looks when it's done." Guys get way to hung on guns, nozzle/tip sizes, etc. Dave is right, it is all about mil thickness. The manufacturer spec.s these in their p. sheets...hammer coatings too thick, they become inflexible and won't move with the metal, put em' on too thin, and you'll blow through your clear on the cut and buff. Get a decent gun with some tip/nozzle selection and start doing some samples, you've got the right concepts, you'll figure out what it takes....
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:31 am
yup Darrel is correct too. and thank you.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:58 am
What these guys said!

I have found a 1.4 tip works best for me with epoxy, base, clear and single stage.
I use a 1.8 (biggest I have at the moment) for 2k build primer and polyester primer.

Spraying speed and technique have a lot to do with gun selection and results.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:47 am
Hmmm, well I guess I’ll just have to play around which is my intent. I’m going paint the hood of the grandson’s Bronco before he sells it with base/clear, just to experiment using both the HVLP and compliant guns.

DarellK said- ‘Guys get way to hung on guns, nozzle/tip sizes, etc. ‘ That is assuredly me, BUT my main goal is to get where I can only blame the operator, not the equipment. It’s like some guy said about buying a cheap pin stripping brush- ‘This stuff is hard enough without cheaping out on the brush’ which seemed reasonable to me, and why I asked this question.

PainterDave said and was quoted- ‘the key to success really is achieving the proper mil thickness so pick the gun that you can do that with’ which I’m sure that is sage advice BUT- what does a newbie do with that information? I thought my goal was basically no orange peel, and no runs. How does one know if they are achieving proper mil thickness without a mil testing gage? Or if I accomplish no orange peel and no runs (hey, I can dream!), have I achieved the same thing- proper mil thickness? Hope that isn’t a stupid question.

To be honest, I think some of my confusion is from watching YouTube videos, as well as Eastwood Kevin Tetz’s video on gun setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTSPSiJuxZI
He states full fluid and full air flow on the gun, with rare exceptions. If that is accurate, then the only parameter to change is the nozzle size based on material viscosity being sprayed and fan size. Not to take this thread astray, but do you approach your spraying that way- full fluid, full air in general?

I’ll give it go and try to learn from the experiment. Thanks for the conversation, Dean

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:40 pm
absolutely not. i have watched a few of those videos and like most videos they leave a lot of info out
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:53 pm
Okay, not pickin' on anybody but here are just a few things to think about....I spent a lot of my youth as a professionally trained orchestral performer. I was a lower brass guy...I hung in some circles that exposed me to some of the most expensive and exotic brass instruments ever made. Guys were always making comments about how this horn made them sound the best or that horn had better intonation, this one better valve speed, etc..... I was in a master clinic with one of the guys from Chicago Symphony at the time. He was quickly moving from horn to horn even swapping out different mouthpieces and honestly the guy sounded wonderfully on just about everything he touched. Guy, behind me says...."You know, I think that guy could make a kitchen sink sound good." The instructor heard him and laughingly said, "Yes, that is the point I am trying to make with you students." You've heard me today on instruments ranging from $1000 to $25000. My sound, my skills that I have developed define me, not my tools..... Soooo..... that's why we've got guys with purple Harbor Freight guns turning out show quality work and other guys that can't get an Iwata dialed in.....
And the mil spec. thing. I don't know if this just isn't taught in a lot of autobody classes, or what, but I was taught in spray wood finishing classes exactly how to achieve mil spec. results using a wet film gauge. A wet film gauge is about the size of a credit card. It has large teeth around the edge marked from about 1 to 80 mils. You just look up the mil spec. in the p. sheet. If you need to lay down a 4 mil wet film to achieve 2 dry mils....that's your spec. for that single coat. Load up your gun by the p. sheet directions and spray down a wet film and immediately check it by placing that gauge on the surface and it will show you if you are getting that 4 mil wet thickness. Most novice shooters don't put down enough of a wet coat in the beginning. By shooting panels over and over again you eventually recognize what constitutes that single wet coat. You could throw down a wet film gauge on almost anything I'm working on and that coat will be around 4 mils wet. Since most of the clears that I shoot are in that 40 to 50% solids range that gives me my 1.6 to 2 mil dry film which (unless I'm shooting some type of exotic material) is inline with what the manufacturer is spec.ing. So who knew?, you do need math when you spray...... :lol:
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:08 am
PainterDave: thanks for clarification of videos.

Per your original comments, I'm thinking I've been misunderstanding nozzle choice. I thought picking the best nozzle size within the stated range would provide better atomization. But from your comments it seems any of the nozzles will provided adequate atomization, and only the speed of application will be adjusted. Is this correct?

DarrelK wrote:..... that's why we've got guys with purple Harbor Freight guns turning out show quality work and other guys that can't get an Iwata dialed in.....
And the mil spec. thing. A wet film gauge is about the size of a credit card. It has large teeth around the edge marked from about 1 to 80 mils. :lol:

While I understand your intent, the advice I found on many forums such as this was 'buy the best gun you can afford', which I've done. By your logic, only an idiot would buy a gun that costs 20-30 times that of the HF purple gun, if it can attain show quality work, right?

Another factor that comes to play is the difference in technologies available, and the difficulty in trying them out for the average joe. I'd love to try a LVLP Iwata to see the difference compared to a HVLP or RP. Yes, they can all do a beautiful job in trained hands, but that does not make them equivalent in my mind. I infer that one technology may suit a painter better than another, perhaps that's incorrect. I may still buy a used LPH400LV just to give it a go, determine what I like, and sell the rest.

Thanks for the advice on the mil gauge, I'll buy one to help guide my learning development.

Thanks for the education, Dean

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:17 am
You might call around at some of the paint jobbers that supply either the wood or automotive paints....sometimes they give wet film gauges away as promotionals. My industrial supplier has a bucket of them on his front desk. Here are some tips on how to use them....
https://www.geionline.com/wet-film-gauge
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