What guns for what?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:22 am
Hey guys,

I have a series of guns and am curious your thoughts on what to keep and use, what to sell, and what to buy if I need to buy. I build cars in my home shop , so the projects will be complete paint jobs from bare steel through cut and buff. The air supply is an IR T30 with a 7.5 horse motor and an 80 gallon tank, followed by a refrigerated dryer. I am working on building my skills and want to make sure that I have good equipment that will allow me to grow and achieve my full potential. So, which guns for primer (or which guns for which kinds of primer), which for color (or which ones for certain kinds of color, like solids, pearls, or heavy flake), and which for clear? I am not opposed to buying different sized tips to use with any of these guns for a better set up. I wouldn’t say money isn’t an object, but I am of the mindset of buy something once and buy it right, rather than half-**** things. So, without further ado, here is the list of hardware:

* Sata KLC-P with a 2.5 tip
* Satajet 5000b HVLP with a 1.2 tip
* Satajet 3000 RP with a 1.4R tip
* Iwata Airgunza AZ3 HTE2 HVLP with a 1.8 tip
* Iwata LPH-94 with a 1.4 tip

So, what’s good, what’s junk, and how should I do this so all my bases are covered? Thanks in advance for any guidance you guys can offer!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:23 am
* Sata KLC-P with a 2.5 tip - for spray polyester or very heavy primers
* Satajet 5000b HVLP with a 1.2 tip - not the ideal choice but ok as a clearcoat gun. With a bigger setup would be a nice basecoat gun.
* Satajet 3000 RP with a 1.4R tip - Not a bad clearcoat gun but hoses it on. Also suitable as a basecoat gun although, again, a touch big for my liking, especially in SATA where tip sizes seem to be bigger than stated.
* Iwata Airgunza AZ3 HTE2 HVLP with a 1.8 tip - good general purpose primer gun.
* Iwata LPH-94 with a 1.4 tip - lovely touch-up/small repair gun. Bit bigger tip than is ideal.
Chris



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:56 am
NFT5 wrote:* Sata KLC-P with a 2.5 tip - for spray polyester or very heavy primers
* Satajet 5000b HVLP with a 1.2 tip - not the ideal choice but ok as a clearcoat gun. With a bigger setup would be a nice basecoat gun.
* Satajet 3000 RP with a 1.4R tip - Not a bad clearcoat gun but hoses it on. Also suitable as a basecoat gun although, again, a touch big for my liking, especially in SATA where tip sizes seem to be bigger than stated.
* Iwata Airgunza AZ3 HTE2 HVLP with a 1.8 tip - good general purpose primer gun.
* Iwata LPH-94 with a 1.4 tip - lovely touch-up/small repair gun. Bit bigger tip than is ideal.


So it sounds like the airgunza for most everything primer related other than the super high build stuff, in which case the KLC-P. Then the 5000 for base and the 3000 for clear. You mentioned a bigger setup for the 5000 and a smaller setup for the 3000, which are 1.2 and 1.4, respectively. So, would I be set if I went to a 1.3 in each of those two guns, or would some other combo be better?

What makes the LPH-94 a good touch up gun, as opposed to a good clear or color gun? I am just trying to understand how to evaluate the equipment better.

Thanks again for all of your help!



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:18 am
Aren't the needle and tip on the RP and HVLP interchangeable? I know the caps are different. If so, I would swap them, an RP in 1.2 and an HVLP in 1.4 sounds about perfect.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:02 pm
jkesselr wrote:What makes the LPH-94 a good touch up gun, as opposed to a good clear or color gun?


Slightly smaller fan but excellent atomisation. You could paint a whole car with this gun if you wanted to, base and clear, but the SATAs are maybe a bit better suited. The LPH94 is an older gun, but that doesn't make it less capable, just that newer guns are better.

jkesselr wrote:You mentioned a bigger setup for the 5000 and a smaller setup for the 3000, which are 1.2 and 1.4, respectively. So, would I be set if I went to a 1.3 in each of those two guns, or would some other combo be better?


I'm not a SATA expert but I've used both the 3000 and 5000. Personally I don't like them because my style better suits a Devilbiss or Iwata gun which are a bit slower. The bigger tips in the SATAs make them even faster so, for a beginner, maybe not so suitable, but they are still very high quality guns.
Chris

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:58 pm
jkesselr wrote:Hey guys,

I have a series of guns and am curious your thoughts on what to keep and use, what to sell, and what to buy if I need to buy. I build cars in my home shop , so the projects will be complete paint jobs from bare steel through cut and buff. The air supply is an IR T30 with a 7.5 horse motor and an 80 gallon tank, followed by a refrigerated dryer. I am working on building my skills and want to make sure that I have good equipment that will allow me to grow and achieve my full potential. So, which guns for primer (or which guns for which kinds of primer), which for color (or which ones for certain kinds of color, like solids, pearls, or heavy flake), and which for clear? I am not opposed to buying different sized tips to use with any of these guns for a better set up. I wouldn’t say money isn’t an object, but I am of the mindset of buy something once and buy it right, rather than half-**** things. So, without further ado, here is the list of hardware:

* Sata KLC-P with a 2.5 tip
* Satajet 5000b HVLP with a 1.2 tip
* Satajet 3000 RP with a 1.4R tip
* Iwata Airgunza AZ3 HTE2 HVLP with a 1.8 tip
* Iwata LPH-94 with a 1.4 tip

So, what’s good, what’s junk, and how should I do this so all my bases are covered? Thanks in advance for any guidance you guys can offer!


* Sata KLC-P with a 2.5 tip / keep around might be good for small poly jobs
* Satajet 5000b HVLP with a 1.2 tip / basecoat spot in blending
* Satajet 3000 RP with a 1.4R tip / keep nozzle set but get a 1.3 better for clear
* Iwata Airgunza AZ3 HTE2 HVLP with a 1.8 tip / primer
* Iwata LPH-94 with a 1.4 tip / seems big to me, maybe drop to a 1.2 ?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:00 am
kace wrote:Aren't the needle and tip on the RP and HVLP interchangeable? I know the caps are different. If so, I would swap them, an RP in 1.2 and an HVLP in 1.4 sounds about perfect.


This sounds interesting. Can anybody else comment on whether this is possible and any positive or negative implications of doing so?



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:04 am
NFT5 wrote:
jkesselr wrote:What makes the LPH-94 a good touch up gun, as opposed to a good clear or color gun?


Slightly smaller fan but excellent atomisation. You could paint a whole car with this gun if you wanted to, base and clear, but the SATAs are maybe a bit better suited. The LPH94 is an older gun, but that doesn't make it less capable, just that newer guns are better.

jkesselr wrote:You mentioned a bigger setup for the 5000 and a smaller setup for the 3000, which are 1.2 and 1.4, respectively. So, would I be set if I went to a 1.3 in each of those two guns, or would some other combo be better?


I'm not a SATA expert but I've used both the 3000 and 5000. Personally I don't like them because my style better suits a Devilbiss or Iwata gun which are a bit slower. The bigger tips in the SATAs make them even faster so, for a beginner, maybe not so suitable, but they are still very high quality guns.


Thank you for the additional clarification. So it sounds like the Iwata might be a good place to start, while reserving the Satas for when I am better and able to move through a paint job faster. Speed isn’t really what I am after though, as I am just a home builder, not a production shop. Slower is fine, if the results are better. So would I be better of selling the satas and looking for something different?



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:08 am
PainterDave wrote:
jkesselr wrote:Hey guys,

I have a series of guns and am curious your thoughts on what to keep and use, what to sell, and what to buy if I need to buy. I build cars in my home shop , so the projects will be complete paint jobs from bare steel through cut and buff. The air supply is an IR T30 with a 7.5 horse motor and an 80 gallon tank, followed by a refrigerated dryer. I am working on building my skills and want to make sure that I have good equipment that will allow me to grow and achieve my full potential. So, which guns for primer (or which guns for which kinds of primer), which for color (or which ones for certain kinds of color, like solids, pearls, or heavy flake), and which for clear? I am not opposed to buying different sized tips to use with any of these guns for a better set up. I wouldn’t say money isn’t an object, but I am of the mindset of buy something once and buy it right, rather than half-**** things. So, without further ado, here is the list of hardware:

* Sata KLC-P with a 2.5 tip
* Satajet 5000b HVLP with a 1.2 tip
* Satajet 3000 RP with a 1.4R tip
* Iwata Airgunza AZ3 HTE2 HVLP with a 1.8 tip
* Iwata LPH-94 with a 1.4 tip

So, what’s good, what’s junk, and how should I do this so all my bases are covered? Thanks in advance for any guidance you guys can offer!


* Sata KLC-P with a 2.5 tip / keep around might be good for small poly jobs
* Satajet 5000b HVLP with a 1.2 tip / basecoat spot in blending
* Satajet 3000 RP with a 1.4R tip / keep nozzle set but get a 1.3 better for clear
* Iwata Airgunza AZ3 HTE2 HVLP with a 1.8 tip / primer
* Iwata LPH-94 with a 1.4 tip / seems big to me, maybe drop to a 1.2 ?


Thanks for the response. What prevents the KLC from being good for larger poly jobs as well? I don’t anticipate doing much in the way of spot blending, so should I send the 5000 down the road? Also, it sounds like you don’t think any of these is good for a basecoat gun for all over paints. What do you recommend I get for basecoats? Sounds like with a 1.3 needle and tip I will be dialed for a clear gun.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:37 am
I think you need to understand that what makes a good gun for me may not work for you. We each have slightly different styles and we use different products in different applications.

For example, when I'm doing clear that needs to be super flat I'll use a GTI Pro Lite with T110 aircap. But, depending on the clear that I'm using for that job I may use a 1.3mm or a 1.2mm tip. Another painter might use a 1.4mm or a 1.3mm in the same scenarios.

Really what you have to do is practice, practice, practice with each of your guns and get to know the strengths and weaknesses of not just each gun, but your own abilities and techniques. Years ago I bought a Tekna Copper - my first really high end gun. But I never succeeded in making it work the way it was supposed to. It sat in my gun cupboard for years. More recently I upgraded guns and now have 5 Pro Lites which I absolutely love (except for the more difficult than others cleaning procedure). Having mastered the Pro Lites I recently dusted off the Tekna Copper and used it on a job that needed a fairly good quality finish. I was amazed at how good the gun was....until I realised that the gun was always good, but I wasn't.

For 2K I use, believe it or not, a Star gun. Admittedly it's the Pro version and with a 1.4mm tip it really shouldn't be the ideal 2K gun. Other painters I know say "You're joking!" But I consistently get dead flat, glossy finishes with that gun. It's useless for clear but also works beautifully for epoxy. Honestly, I can't get the same finish with an FLG5, which technically should be a much better gun.

Same thing with primer. I do a lot of bars so generally a really wide fan is just wasting paint. For priming bars I use an old Star 710 with a 1.5mm tip. Nothing else in my arsenal can achieve that velvety smooth finish with primer that that old gun can. Quite often no need to sand, just scuff and top coat.

The range of guns you have is pretty good. More guns than most beginners could ever dream of and all of high to extremely high quality. What I'd say to you is use the general recommendations that you've been given and go use them all in different applications. Once you really understand not just the guns' capabilities but your own as well then start looking at changing them. Get a different tip setup for the Iwata and maybe the SATA 3000 and try each out. That, at least will keep your initial layout down a bit, until you really know what you want.

There are other factors, too, that may become apparent as you use those guns you have. For example, one of the reasons that I don't like SATA guns is that I keep knocking the fan adjustment out, because it's on the side of the gun, not the back. I find the balance different, also, to the Devilbiss, Star and Iwata guns that I have. This isn't universal. Painter Dave prefers SATA guns because he feels comfortable with them but may not like the feel of a Pro Lite. Yet they're both top shelf guns.

Take what's been said here as general guidance, but make your own decisions.
Chris
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