Proper Mask Filters??

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:19 pm
bolts wrote:Which is the right cartridge?

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:You need the ones rated for Organic Vapors.


Just be aware that there are organic vapours and there are organic vapours. Some of the 3M ones say that they're rated for organic vapours but not for hexamethylene diisocyanate.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:28 pm
NFT5 wrote:
bolts wrote:Which is the right cartridge?

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:You need the ones rated for Organic Vapors.


Just be aware that there are organic vapours and there are organic vapours. Some of the 3M ones say that they're rated for organic vapours but not for hexamethylene diisocyanate.
Ah....good to know, I'll do a little more research.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:44 am
As someone who has been "iso poisoned" before (ha, ha, the medical people call it "iso sensitivity") just keep in mind that ANY mask/cartridge system like that depends on activated charcoal which actually "loads up" with isocyanates until the mask carts become "saturated" and not only useless but dangerous. I now look at masks as a secondary line of defense.... so what's the first line.... air movement, and more specifically a warm shop with air moving during the mixing of the stuff, the shooting of the stuff, and the off gassing of what you just shot. If you cannot achieve good air flow I'd look at something like this....
https://www.turbineproducts.com/breathe ... ap-helmet/ I use that system when I shoot all my automotive coatings. I only feel safe using organic cart masks when I shoot bedliner and even then I use new carts with each session.
If you ever do get sensitized to Iso's you'll never forget it. I haven't slept in a bed for the last 18 years, I had diagnosed COPD for 10 years of that with steroid treatements and lots of inhalers. I did make a full recovery......Just need to make people aware the stuff we shoot/handle maybe won't kill you but it can turn your life into a nasty existence.....
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:26 am
I was on the 3M web sight looking at filters as I too need to get some new ones. I keep mine bagged up when not used but I know all to well they are too old to be any good.

On that 3M web sight I didn't find any description that spelled out that they were rated for Automotive paints let alone hexamethylene diisocyanate.
I thought the descriptions for the cartridges wear a bit vague in what chemicals they work with.

As I can remember the last time I was shopping for new masks and filters I couldnt find it then and broke down and called them and was told none of them were rated for isocyanates, they recommended a clean air system that I couldn't afford at the time.
Then the person recommended a filter cartridge that could be used for limited amount of time in the paint room environment but I have no idea what Part number the filter was now.

Since that time I have been buying Filter masks from my paint jobber new almost every time I shoot.
Dennis B.
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Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:56 am
DarrelK wrote:If you cannot achieve good air flow I'd look at something like this....
https://www.turbineproducts.com/breathe ... ap-helmet/
That looks prettty cool and, in the big picture not all that expensive for what you get. Just curious, how do you keep the clear plastic clean from overspray?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:00 pm
Airflow through your booth is critical.
To give you an idea of what I mean by airflow:

HOW SPRAY BOOTHS WORK
All of the following will be based on the recommendations of the National Fire Protection Association -- Bulletin 33. NFPA 33 are the best written rules and guidelines for spray booths and are what most municipalities use for their own fire codes. The only problem is that NFPA can only advise and has no means of enforcing its rules and regulations. OSHA will back up NFPA rulings but only if they (OSHA) are called in by an employee

AIR
Booths require air, a LOT of air in order to have a good air flow through he booth. NFPA-33 and OSHA ask for a minimum of 100 feet per minute (FPM) of air flow past the operator. For most booths this equates to needing a volume source of air of from 8,000 to 10,000 cubic feet per minute (CFM). This is a lot of air and usually more than your building can provide. Booths use air as water from a raging river. Only unlike a raging river that starts from a mild stream, the booth's need for a raging river of air must COME from a raging river of air. Again since most buildings can't provide this much air DON'T rule out an air replacement unit.
If the booth doesn't get the required air it needs then the air flow inside the booth is a lot less than the required 100 FPM. The paint over spray can't be whisked away and the painter is left standing in a cloud of over spray that eventually settles to the floor. This is why booths become dusty and dirty as well as leaving a lingering smell of paint and solvent.


I built my booth trying to use a minimum amount of money. So I got squire cage blowers from used furnaces. Each one is rated at about 2000 CFM. Right now I have four of them in my set up so when I flip the switch I have to make sure the garage door is open first. Otherwise the pressure is too great and I cannot open it. I also have to have the windows open in my garage because that is where the air is being drawn from.

The key to this type of booth working, is controlling the pressure within the booth. I want a minimal amount of positive pressure so that the airflow isn't inhibited.

When I spray clear, the PSI at the gun is higher and it produces more of a cloud than the base coat does. This cloud can visibly be seen heading immediately toward the door.

I still change my mask cartriges and prefilters often. Small price to pay to ensure my lungs are protected.
1968 Coronet R/T


ACTS 16:31

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:30 pm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^That is good information and practices right there.... If my head/thinking was in that place 20 years ago it would have saved me from a lot of grief, doctor/hospital visits, and money....
Oh, hey, Rebel, those visors have a static clear shield that just goes on the outside of the hood/helmet unit. Peel them off and stick on a new one. Might just be me but I rarely have to change it....
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 2:23 pm
DarrelK wrote:As someone who has been "iso poisoned" before


You too, huh? It seems I was lucky. I had what seemed like asthma for a year. Never sprayed without a mask but went back into the booth unprotected, too early. Sick as, it's not fun.

I use an SAS for bigger jobs and a mask for smaller ones. Still very conscious of the limited life of mask filters and write the date on them when I instal new ones, so I can keep track. Store in a plastic container, of course.

In the shop the SAS I had was similar to the one you've linked. A bit of a PITA because you had to hook up outside or hold your breath while going through the door and the two hoses were not always easy to handle. Plus, the mask was quite uncomfortable while wearing glasses, but the fresh air was lovely. This one, but I didn't pay anywhere near that price.

Now, with the bigger compressor, I can tap into that air supply, which runs through extra filters to ensure it's breathable.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:37 pm
'68 Coronet R/T wrote:minimum of 100 feet per minute (FPM) of air flow past the operator. For most booths this equates to needing a volume source of air of from 8,000 to 10,000 cubic feet per minute (CFM).


This is so true. As you say, without the right flow you're left standing in a fog of overspray which very quickly overpowers the capacity of your mask to filter.

Forgive me if I convert to metric here. I really find it difficult to work in Imperial measurements these days (although I have always been 5'10" tall and have no idea what that converts to, without a calculator, - go figure).

100 fpm is pretty close to our standard which says 0.5m/s. However, my idea of a standard booth is 4.0m wide by 2.7m high (13' x 9'). To get the amount of air movement required, multiply width by height, so 4 x 2.7 = 10.8 sqm x 60 sec/min x 60 min/hour = 38800 x 0.5 = 19440 cubic metres/hour. At 1 m3/hr = 0.59 cfm this is 11470 cfm which is quite a bit more than your 4 x 2000cfm fans will clear. You really need 6 fans. Obviously, this changes with dimensions of the booth, but your point about air movement is agreed and it is usually a lot more than most people think.

Positive pressure booths here rank about the same as premeditated murder. Makes sense to me, pushing those isocyanates into the rest of your workshop is exposing anyone in the workshop (including yourself) to a deadly poison. Negative pressure is the way to go, with an exhaust that gets the fumes away from people. Standard here is for the flue to be 3m above the highest point of the roof and directing the exhaust straight up. That's a bit hard to achieve in a non-commercial building - probably 3m above ground level would be better. I know negative pressure can introduce issues with dust - just need to be careful about sealing up any cracks.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:55 pm
NFT5 wrote:I know negative pressure can introduce issues with dust - just need to be careful about sealing up any cracks.
Hypothetically thinking..........what about a booth that has a fan ( on the outside of the booth) pushing in outside air and a fan on the other side sucking out the air. Unless it created a windstorm, would that not create a good airflow? I'm sure there is a valid reason for it not being good, just don't see it in my little brain.
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