Need help in estimating

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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:39 pm
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:10 am
Hello, This is a long story, I will keep it short, I moved my shop from my home to a shop in my area. It is in a business industrial center. I have painted my 68 corvette and working to get my 70SS to paint, Being in a business center I am getting a lot of people stopping in and wanting dents, scratches repaired. Living in Sarasota there are a lot of retires and this is a big reason why there is a lot of this type of work. (Trying to put the term older population in a acceptable political way!) My issue is now I have fixed quite a few and now turning people away cause I am swamped, I am thinking that is because the price I charge is too low. I know it will be hard but I would like to describe damage and get an idea of what some of you would charge to fix it. This is a silver Cad, the customer bumped into something in the front, paint scraped on the front bumper cover, no filling needed, damage on back corner of the bumper cover some filling needed, small scrape on edge of QTR where it meets the bumper cover. These repairs are both in a 12" area in both locations. I know without pictures this will be very hard to do, but any info you can give me will help me and I can apply to other jobs that come my way. If there was a class on estimating in my town I would attend it in a minute, I have checked and there is not, so I thought I would go to you guys.
Again, I appreciate in advance any thoughts you have. I don't want to overcharge but I also don't want to cut myself short either. Steve



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Location: Sudbury Ontario
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:15 am
(Sarchevyman)I would usually start at aroung $280.00 just to scuff and spray a bumper cover unless its red expensive colours add your dents cracks ect and your time for R /R if need be . U know there is estimating software you can bye or lease witch gives you detailed info ! good luck :D
Joey



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Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:55 pm
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:46 am
Charge by the hour for starters...
A man can do all things if he but wills them.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:29 am
Have the customer take it to the most expensive body shop in town and get an estimate. Now, undercut that bodyshop by 20%. Just kidding ;)

Shops around here charge $40-80+ an hour depending on who you go to, some include the materials in that price, some dont! I use cost of materials + labor when I'm doing welding/body repairs. A flat rate per hour can kill your profit on a project that uses expensive materials, unless your rate is high enough (which scares customers away).

"Free" Estimating software: http://www.shesmylittle.com/Pages/dn_load.htm



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Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:39 pm
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:13 pm
whiplash: well I see why everyone is coming to me now, I am embassassed to even say what I charged her,

vwbobby: Thanks for the link to the software, I am going to tinker with it tonight and see how it works out for me

Han:Thanks for the advise!



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Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:07 pm
Location: pennsylvania
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:47 pm
I think one of the major problems that bodyshops bring upon themselves is charging by the hour. And even more so following the various estimating guides to the T to determine how to charge. Those estimating guides are in the insurance companies pockets and everything needs to be adjusted to fit your needs. The bottom line in any business should be for you to charge what you need to charge to obtain the profit you need.

And while I disagree with charging by the hour, that's the way the industry does things, so here's how I'd come up with a figure for the job you described:

Overhaul front bumper- 4.0 hours
Repair front bumper - 2.0 hours
Overhaul back bumper- 4.0 hours
Repair back bumper - 3.0 hours
R+I taillight - 0.5 hours
R+I glass - 6.0 hours
Repair quarter -2.0 hours
Prime and block -3.0 hours
Total body time -24.5 hours

Refinish front bumper -4.0 hours
Refinish back bumper -4.0 hours
Refinish quarter -4.0 hours
clearcoat -2.0 hours
tint color -1.5 hours
nib and polish -1.0 hour
Total refinish time -16.5 hours

Total Job time -41.0 hours
@$45/hour $1845.00
paint materials $412.50 (@$25/hour per refinish hour)
additional material $ 50.00 (body filler, primer, waster handling etc.)

Total job $2307.50

That's more or less what I'd be writing on that car. I'm not fixing cars for fun, and I'm not interested in working for free. Charge for what you do and do what you charge for.



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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:39 pm
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:53 pm
Well, I have been playing with the estimating program on this, I am still learning it, but I came up with $410. This was with inserting blending the panels And using a rate of $50 an hour and using $38 as materials per hour charged. The program suggested using 1/2 of your labor charge, I moved it up for the reasons adtkart mentioned. I am sure I still need to learn more about it, but that is a heck of a lot more then I had been charging :shock:



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:58 pm
Well, i "fix" cars for fun and for profit... But i'm just crazy like that. :wink:

And to come up with that figure sight unseen is AMAZING!
A man can do all things if he but wills them.



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Location: pennsylvania
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:10 pm
As with any repair, the repairer does the job that he thinks is best. I generally don't care about doing lesser quality work, which is why I'll write for things I think need done. I also write an estimate to bring a car back to it's pre loss state, which a customer is entitled to in their insurance policy.

I would remove the taillight for a proper refinish job. The same goes with the glass removal. I ask for 6 hours of glass removal under the assumption that I'd be taking out the back glass as well as the quarter glass. If there were no quarter glass than I would adjust accordingly. Alot of shops opt not to take the glass out, but I believe that with a quality job it should be done.

Prime and block is an often not written procedure than is always done. The only reason shops don't get paid for this is to make a concession to the insurance company. I view prime and block as a transition between the body work and the paint work. You'll notice in the estimating guides that the body work stage ends with the finished product in 150 grit. The prime and block operation is neccesary to bring the panel to the equivalent of new and undamaged. New and undamaged is the point in the estimating guides when paint work begins. I come up with three hours easily. I need to feather the body work, mask for primer, prime, than sand the primer. Done properly on a three panel repair such as this I'd expect to be done in roughly 1.5 hours. My desired profit is based on me being at least 200% efficient, so three hours is my number. So no, I don't feel prime and block is included in the repair. It's a seperate process.

My area is most likely just like your area. If I write estimates like this, I'd risk starving because the insurance companies would illegally steer work away from my shop. But while other shops are making concessions left and right, and losing profit's by volume, I'd make a living doing what I feel is best by my customer.



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Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:55 pm
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:33 am
Ya know, this thread can go on forever as i have PLENTY of questions too.
I'm not much of a nit picker and i generally don't argue with an adjuster
or "field appraiser" unless the gal/fella is blatantly cutting it short. The
only real area that is subjective is the repair time and that's where i try
to get the most. Some guys can repair a particular damage in 2 hours
and others may take 4 hours. I'm one of the "other" guys...

As far as corruption goes, it goes both ways (shops and insurers).
This is a topic all it's own and is something i don't waste time on.

Yes, the P Pages important as i'm not always sure what is and isn't included.
For an 03 VW New Beetle, i believe the book (Mitchell Ultramate)
calls for 4/5 hours to R and I a fender that is riveted on. And there
seems to be no easy way to remove that fender without destroying
a small foam impact absorber that is glued on (about $50 for that piece).
I had to call in for a supplement for this one...

Every case is different and i always try to do what is best for my customers (as any shop should).
And sometimes i eat the cost of something...

sarchevyman,

Check out Ebay, sometimes you can get Mitchell guide books for
a fair price. And visit some shops and ask if they're willing to part
with some of their older books to study from. And trust me, there is
plenty to study...

:D
A man can do all things if he but wills them.
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