Top coating over epoxy with paint

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:46 am
I have some areas where finding a perfect surface is not so critical, jamb areas and concealed areas etc.

Is there any problem with shooting epoxy and after just a short (hour or two) of flash time spraying paint.

I realize there is a *recoat window* of about 24 hours on my epoxy, but how short can I cut that window?

Is there some thinking here I ought to know before I wade into this process? :worthy:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:53 pm
yes you can, i usually wait 20 minutes or so sometimes shorter or longer. what epoxy are you using ? it will help to give you a better a better answer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:46 pm
Nason 491-16

Part of my thinking is that this method will give me the best adhesion between the two (epoxy/paint) ... would that be correct?

As opposed to waiting and then sanding the epoxy to recoat at a later date.

As a general question: Does epoxy have better adhesion properties than paint?

I ask this because a few areas have been epoxied in the past and will need to be sanded for recoat. Would it be wise to shoot a coat of fresh epoxy on those areas, then the paint as discussed?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:33 pm
depend on the paint and the substrate you would be referring to,
bare steel epoxy works well due to its moisture barrier, but etch and urethane sealer work just as good as far as adhesion goes IMO. i would recommend another coat of epoxy after sanding to get a nice smooth uniform finish to paint over. my own rule is to never base or paint over sanded epoxy/primer w/o sealing with epoxy/urethane sealer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:42 pm
Thanks for the guidance Dave.

I think you have me pointed in the right direction ... I appreciate it. :goodjob:



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:55 pm
PainterDave wrote:my own rule is to never base or paint over sanded epoxy/primer w/o sealing with epoxy/urethane sealer

I'm not sure how you intended this procedure to be conveyed. Are you implying one should not apply topcoat over sanded primer, and only over a sealer whether it be reduced epoxy as a sealer or a dedicated urethane sealer? If no breakthroughs to bare metal, and sanded correctly, why not just go directly to topcoat over primer? I just hit small breakthroughs to bare metal with epoxy sealer prior to topcoat.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:38 am
yes thats what im saying, sealer promotes adhesion for the base, fill sand scratches and gives you a over all strong solid paint job. and it is better practice. the only thing i will base over is when doing graphics over 800 grit clear or a blend panel.

basecoat will stick to a mechanical scratch but it will stick better to a chemical bond
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:23 am
PainterDave wrote: sealer promotes adhesion for the base ...
basecoat will stick to a mechanical scratch but it will stick better to a chemical bond


And that right there is the entire point of my question ;)



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:08 pm
Dave, I am not a backyarder. Self employed and doing artwork, custom paint, restoration design and fabrication for decades. Years ago, I used to always promote sealer prior to topcoat for the reason a TDS states: It promotes adhesion. However, it is not required in all applications. Jobs I've done without it have not failed after a decade or more of abuse. Pack the primer with sufficient flash times, finish with the proper grit,and there is no worry of sand scratches showing. There is no sealer used when doing a blend and after decades, they are not failing.
How do you use sealer on a brand new vehicle or complete that requires 3-??? color graphics and art work? Do you shoot adpro first?
As far as primer; very little mention of PPG CRE or PPG VP 2050 on these sites.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:55 am
ScottB wrote:Dave, I am not a backyarder. Self employed and doing artwork, custom paint, restoration design and fabrication for decades. Years ago, I used to always promote sealer prior to topcoat for the reason a TDS states: It promotes adhesion. However, it is not required in all applications. Jobs I've done without it have not failed after a decade or more of abuse. Pack the primer with sufficient flash times, finish with the proper grit,and there is no worry of sand scratches showing. There is no sealer used when doing a blend and after decades, they are not failing.
How do you use sealer on a brand new vehicle or complete that requires 3-??? color graphics and art work? Do you shoot adpro first?
As far as primer; very little mention of PPG CRE or PPG VP 2050 on these sites.


yeah buddy never said you "cant" get away with not using sealer. just said it is better practice to use it. if i was doing tape outs or two tones or graphics i would still seal before my base on tape outs 90% of the time. depends on colors, style of graphics, art work, etc

here is a trailer i two toned and cleared before laying all the graphics.


again i will put color over sanded clear but usually will seal a sanded complete due to burn throughs, edge mapping, and getting the most vibrance out of my color.

yellow red orange light blue pink light purples (all solids) should all go over white, so i will seal white for adhesion and color. really just depends on the job buddy
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