Door Jambs at the same time - (Yes I Searched)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:10 am
Hi All,

(I have searched both the forums and with Google on the forums to try to find the answer, with no luck)

Firstly thank you for the awesome forum. I've been a long time lurker and have found lots of fantastic information through search (no need to post).

I am restoring a Mercedes G-Wagon. It was factory creamy white and I'm going back to the same color but the factory paint was chalking so I took the whole outside of the car down to bare metal.

I removed the doors, hood and front quarter panels. Did all my metal work, then gave everything 2 layers of Cromax Epoxy Primer, sanded down with 150 grit and did all my body filler work. The reassembled.

I am now at the 2k filler, sealer and then base coat clear coat steps.

I have searched a lot about the final paint process. I even found the Mercedes training video for G-wagons at the factory. They paint the cars with the doors on. Evident when you see the factory hinges, hinge shims, and hinge bolts painted over.

QUESTION: Everything I have read here however has talked about painting the jambs and then taping up and painting the outside or visa versa.

However on a big blocky car like this I'm wondering if there is any harm in painting the jambs and body all at one time? (is the reason over spray?) The doors open to 90 degrees with big gaps and easy access to the jambs, hinges and body all round, so access is not a problem. The fact that they paint the car at the factory this way surely is also an indication it will be ok. Im just nervous, I'm missing something big.

(I also have a small no name jamb gun and a Devilbliss SGK 1.4 for the majority of the base and clear)


This was my proposed way forward....

 This Weekend

- Full scuff down to 200 (manufacturer reccomendation on epoxy outside it's recoat window)
- Final Epoxy on sand through spots (30min flash off)
- Wet on wet 2 layers 2k high build primer
- Let dry, then guide coat
- Block Down wet with 400 then 600

Next Weekend

Prep
- Clean booth
- Wash car (dishsoap)
- Wax and Greece remover
- Tack Cloth

Sealer / Epoxy Primer
- 1 coat complete (medium)
- 30min flash off (OEM spec)
- Get uniform layer over dark grey 2k filler

Base Coat
- Mix 2 paint between 3 cans (even colors)
- Thin paint all at once (even colors)
- Mix up 4 gal total at once (even colors)
- Two full coats, 1 light, 1 medium.
- Possible 3rd depending on coverage

Clear Coat
- As per above
- 3 Full Coats
- Debate flow coat later

Paint Process
 > Follow for: Sealer (×1) / Base (x2) / Clear (x3)
 > Process
     1. Inside dash 
     2. Door jambs x 5
     3. Bonnet outer lip
     4. Roof
     5. Body & Doors
     6. Hood

Factory Painting Pics.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:17 am
That's big project, being a solid color this is what I've done. I like to get everything to the paint stage. then I shoot the main body section bare no doors no hood anything that comes off is off. after its dry I move it to a safe place on the other side of my shop if any buffing is needed its done now. now I do the doors and any other small parts, as many as can be done in the area available. when dry buff if needed. now take the doors over and install on the main body section. do more parts the same way
you can mix your base coat all at one time if it doesn't require a catalyst. 4 gallons of base coat seams like a lot.
don't mix a lot of your clear all at one time maybe 1/2 gallon at a time. if something go's wrong you've lost your clear. or anything that's been catalyzed. read your info sheet about pot life.
when you block sand the 2k primer if you use 400 its not going to cut it flat. you may want to use 180 then reprime and then go to your 400,600.
good luck Jay D.
they say my name is Jay

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:36 pm
RSF Gunney wrote:...........

[color=#0000FF] QUESTION: Everything I have read here however has talked about painting the jambs and then taping up and painting the outside or visa versa.

However on a big blocky car like this I'm wondering if there is any harm in painting the jambs and body all at one time? (is the reason over spray?) The doors open to 90 degrees with big gaps and easy access to the jambs, hinges and body all round, so access is not a problem. The fact that they paint the car at the factory this way surely is also an indication it will be ok. Im just nervous, I'm missing something big.
........

Outside overspray is indeed one reason jambs and body aren't painted at the same time. Another is dust that's disturbed during jamb painting that always finds itself on the outside. It's also hard to keep a wet edge during jamb transition, and then you have to worry about opening/closing doors with wet paint on them. It's a lot of work.

If the doors have already been gapped then it's easier to paint with everything together, but I'd still paint the jambs first, then close the doors to paint the exterior.

Since the color is black, it would be lots easier to use a single stage paint. That might be what the factory used on these....?
"If you can't move it, paint it." - U.S. Army



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:12 am
finding the video the screen shots came from
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxfywuByjrg

and a little digging, mercedes seems to have used single stage for solid colors up to about the mid 90's. SS would make it easier. dont think id wanna try doing a BC/CC with doors and all on the vehicle

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:01 am
I have shot a couple of vehicles with the doors attached. It is not the best method by far but it can be done.

Front fenders should be removed for access to those areas you cannot spray from the jamb area. You also need to exercise care in not letting freshly sprayed doors come in contact with the jamb, sill plate or weatherstrip lip. (not to mention your clothes, gloves, air hose, etc.)

With the door in the closed position shoot the A-pillar/hinge area first, then open the door and shoot the inside and jamb area. Leave the door open while it flashes off.

Like I said, this is NOT the best way to paint a vehicle. Badsix stated the best way to do it.
Many times the shortcuts end up costing more time, materials and money.
1968 Coronet R/T


ACTS 16:31



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:36 pm
Thanks all for the valuable feedback.

The original cars were indeed shot with a single stage.

This one will be creamy white (not black) which should help hide any mistakes. :oops:

The main reasons to try to paint the doors on the vehicle - the hinges, hinge bolts and shim plates would then be painted into position. They are then protected, and it matches the factory look. Through my reading I thought the reason jambs were painted first was because of the difficulty in getting into the gaps.... it seems to be a bit more complicated than that.

I think something that will help is that the hinges are very stiff on these old G Wagons, the doors don't swing freely - if you put them in a position they stay there.

Thanks for the advice on the mixing and the painting procedure, the front quarter panels are indeed coming off and are being painted separately (but at the same time), as is the hood.

I've read of issues arising when people paint their panels in different sessions and just the paint mixing process has resulted in different colors.

Only managed to finish the last of the filler work yesterday so it moves over into the paint booth tonight for some more epoxy and 2k filler. I suppose the application of the 2k filler will let us know how hard it is going to be to shoot the base/clear.

A few pics of the process (only up to epoxy). There are loads on Instagram @qatar_280ge_build if anyone wants to see more. You guys will no doubt spot a bunch of things I have been doing wrong. But it's my first job so it's been a learning experience all the way through :D

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:28 pm
That's ambitious for a first project, Gunney.
Looks very good so far. The light colored sealer will help the cream topcoat coverage, especially in the jambs.
Your plan is sound; it'll turn out fine... :goodjob:
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:19 am
Well... the jambs worked out well with the filler primer. Loads of space to work and not too much overspray.

Its 100 degrees F here at the moment with 80% humidity and probably a very stupid time to be painting a car in an un-airconditioned booth. After the jambs were done and the doors were closed and the body was being sprayed a tonne of overspray dust fell on the body panels and subsequently into the filler primer, looked like sandpaper in spots. It was drying very very quickly.

I'm going to sand as much of the dust out as possible away today and see where I stand. Hopefully, it's not going to create massive adhesion issues and can be rectified.

I have a small mobile AC Unit for the booth for Saturday when we do sealer + base + clear to try to bring the temp and humidity down a bit.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:05 am
I have painted many cars in pieces, even metallics and never had a problem with colors matching. You just need to be consistent in your mixing and application. Try to spray the panels in a position similar to when installed if using a metallic, otherwise just the above applies.
1968 Coronet R/T


ACTS 16:31

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