Critique my process

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:20 pm
I'm getting very close to the paint and body step of my 66 Mustang project. I've been surfing these and other forums, trying to understand the steps needed to tackle this portion and it's very confusing to say the least. I've put together a list of steps that I'm hoping to gather feedback on to make sure I'm on the right track.

Couple things: the majority of the car is in bare metal. Quarters are new, and therefore e-coated. Inside the car is the original paint, engine compartment is bare metal. The plan is to Raptor Line the underbody including the outer aprons. Engine bay and trunk interior will be top coated in a matte black, body will be white. Fenders and hood are fiberglass. Material will include PPG paints and primers, Rage Ultra body filler, Evercoat Slick Sand, U-Pol Raptor Liner. Everything will be applied using a turbine HVLP unit. All parts will be removed from car, leaving just the bare body.

Here are the steps:

1. Strip to bare metal and then go over surface with 80 grit on a DA sander.

2. Wipe with Wax and Grease remover (wipe/spray it on and wipe it off with a clean towel) and let flash for 20 minutes.

3. Do any repairs and filler work (on bare metal)

4. Spray two coats of unreduced epoxy primer and let dry 24 hours.

- At this point, all "hidden" areas will either be top coated with Raptor or matte black and finished

5. Spray Slick Sand

6. Sand w/ 220 grit

7. Spray 2k regular build primer 2 coats and let dry.

8. Apply guide coat and block sand with 220 grit on the longest block that fits the panel.

9. Apply 1 more coat of 2k and let dry.

10. Apply guide coat and block sand with 400 grit just until guide coat is gone.

11. Wipe panel clean with a 50/50 mix of Isopropyl alcohol and water and let dry.

12. Spray one coat of reduced epoxy primer as a sealer and let dry.

13. Block sand Wet with 600 - 800 grit

14. Wipe panel clean with 50/50 and let dry.

15. Spray base coat to cover ~3 coats

16. Spray clear coat. ~ 3 coats

Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:30 pm
Replace

cc_mustang wrote:12. Spray one coat of reduced epoxy primer as a sealer and let dry.

13. Block sand Wet with 600 - 800 grit

14. Wipe panel clean with 50/50 and let dry.


with:
12. Spray one coat of reduced epoxy as a sealer
13-14. Wait 20 minutes

In fact you could omit the sealer altogether. It really isn't necessary if the primer has been properly prepped and blocking out a single coat of reduced epoxy with P600 is going to end in tears. Your choice. I just see it as another coat to paint, add thickness and peel and potentially get dirt in.

Don't overload the film thickness any more than you have to. Two coats of a quality base is usually enough, especially if you've used the correct colour sealer. Three coats if it's an "economy" base (that you just used 50% more of). Same with clear. You should end up with 50-60μm clear thickness. Test on scrap first.

I hope you've tested that gun with all those products.
Chris



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:48 pm
:goodpost: Chris is correct I counted 13 coats of material :rolleyes: I would pass on the slick sand it shouldn't be that bad with new panels, use the hi build. i'm with Chris on the sealer, no real need. excessive film build is not real good.
Jay D.
they say my name is Jay

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:38 pm
Noticed you are turbine spraying there as well..... What's your set-up like for that?....i.e, Turbine brand system, stages, hose length, gun type, etc......
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:45 am
my arms/shoulders hurt just reading all of the sanding.



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:44 am
Thanks for the responses. I'm all for reduced material/time/sanding if possible. My spray environment won't be the best, so extra sanding may be unavoidable. Any other steps you'd cut out/tweak?

As for turbine setup, I'll be picking up one of these. I've heard great things about it thus far and the price is a lot better than the alternative. https://www.tptools.com/SHOWTIME-99-Fin ... ,9215.html

I have not purchased or tested any of the products yet. Part of this is to make sure I'm on the right track before dropping the cash. Open to suggestions or ideas as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:29 am
Okay, then....so you don't currently own a turbine system? Have you sprayed with one before? Nothing wrong with TP Tools units however, this is just my opinion, current turbine tech. has passed them buy. For the same pricing you could be into this....
https://www.paintsprayersplus.com/Fuji- ... ZcQAvD_BwE
You pick up an extra 1 to 1.5 psi of pressure (this is important with a turbine system) which will mean better atomization and also more fluid pressure in the gun cup. Also, take a good look at that gun with the Fuji.....the cup can pivot....this newer gun was kind of "clean sheet of paper" thing designed specifically to work with these newer 4 and 5 stage turbine systems. Okay, I don't make or sell turbine systems for anyone anymore but I do keep up with tech. since I still use them to do cars with and I've got like 7 turbine guns in my wood shops. Even with doing wood coatings we are now shooting with 4 stage units because of the higher solids clears. Oh, and, again this is just my point of view.....Don't even think about shooting Slick Sand through a turbine system. The stuff will "kick off" faster in these systems making your new gun a dandy paperweight. Honestly, I don't even like shooting regular primers and build primers with them.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:39 am
DarrelK wrote:Okay, then....so you don't currently own a turbine system? Have you sprayed with one before? Nothing wrong with TP Tools units however, this is just my opinion, current turbine tech. has passed them buy.

Oh, and, again this is just my point of view.....Don't even think about shooting Slick Sand through a turbine system. The stuff will "kick off" faster in these systems making your new gun a dandy paperweight. Honestly, I don't even like shooting regular primers and build primers with them.


Very interesting. I do not yet own the turbine system and I like the size of the one you suggest as well. Anything to help maximize space is good in my book. As mentioned above, it seems smart to skip the slick sand.

Part of creating this list is to not only have a process to stick to, but also to gather feedback on the materials and tools I'll be using. I haven't purchased anything yet. And alternatives like this are why I wanted to ask before buying!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:48 am
Well, there is quite enough to learn/figure out with just spraying automotive coatings. Dial in learning to use a turbine system with those same materials and newbies can just end up lost in trying to get the coatings to lay down properly. That Fuji system will give you a much better chance of getting those coatings down flat. Orange peel is cumulative and the less you have of it in each passing coat the sooner you'll get to your goal of a quality finished paint job.......
Metal, wood, fiberglass, we work it all... www.furniturephysicians.com We can restore the irreplaceable!



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:21 pm
Is it worth the extra cost to jump up to the Q Series? What would need to be done to ensure a decent spray with the primers? My air compressor won't really work for this, which is why I was looking at a turbine setup in the first place.

So far, it sounds like the steps need to be modified to this:

1. Strip to bare metal and then go over surface with 80 grit on a DA sander.

2. Wipe with Wax and Grease remover (wipe/spray it on and wipe it off with a clean towel) and let flash for 20 minutes.

3. Do any repairs and filler work (on bare metal)

4. Spray two coats of unreduced epoxy primer and let dry 24 hours.

- At this point, all "hidden" areas will either be top coated with Raptor or matte black and finished

5. Spray 2k regular build primer 2 coats and let dry.

6. Apply guide coat and block sand with 220 grit on the longest block that fits the panel.

7. Apply 1 more coat of 2k and let dry.

8. Apply guide coat and block sand with 400 grit just until guide coat is gone.

9. Block sand Wet with 600 - 800 grit

10. Wipe panel clean with a 50/50 mix of Isopropyl alcohol and water and let dry.

11. Spray one coat of reduced epoxy primer as a sealer and let it dry (to re-coat window).

12. Spray base coat to cover ~2 coats

13. Spray clear coat. ~ 2 coats

The panels are by no means perfect, but they're not bad. There's a fair amount of fiberglass as well (hood, fenders). But the car will see equal time on the street and track, so a show car finish is overkill. I'm looking for something that looks decent, keeps the rust at bay, but doesn't feel like a kick in the groin every time a rock chips it.
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