Hey guys,

I am getting ready to paint a Jeep victory red using Tamco products. I want your thoughts on an idea I had. I am planning on stripping it to metal and will cover it with epoxy primer, do my bodywork, and then hit it with primer surfacer. Once everything is leveled out, I will use reduced primer surfacer as a seal coat, per Tamco's instructions, and then hit it with color and clear.

Growing up, dad always used PPG products and generally used standard ol' grey primer. I want to use white primer surfacer under the red paint for a little extra brightness and was thinking about using black epoxy as a way to quickly tell if I am getting thin as I am blocking out the white primer surfacer. Thoughts? Do you think the black epoxy under a white base and white seal coat would darken the red at all? Would I be better using black epoxy, grey P/S, and then reduced white P/S as a sealer?

Finally, in light of this being a street and trail Jeep, I was thinking of skipping the 2104 in favor of the high impact clear. Any thoughts on this?

I want it to be nice and glossy and stay that way.

Thanks in advance for any guidance you are able to offer!

John

here's what I would do. strip to bare metal if you want then shoot 2 good wet coats of your epoxy. do your body work and spot spray with a 2K HI BUILD PRIMER do this until they block out flat using A POWDERED GUID COAT. now I don't know how fast you work but lets assume you out of the recoat time. so your going to have to sand the epoxy, you can sand it with some 180 on a block. no guide coat needed the epoxy will change color were its sanded, fix any low or hi spots. next 2 coats of hi build, guide coat and block. I like to hit it lightly with 500 wet then guide coat and use 600. now your ready for color.
option, you could spray the epoxy then the next day spray a couple wet coats of 2k hi build. this would eliminate having to sand the epoxy.
primer color MAY change your red there are a couple ways to do this. I use the light tan colored 2k hi build and it can be used as a sealer also. or what I've done with yellows when I buy my paint I get 1 qt or how ever much you think you'll need of white spray the first coat with the white usually one good coat is all that's needed. you may check and see if the 2K HI BUILD is available in white.
as for the clear I have no idea I've never used ether one.
Jay D.

Just to be sure I understand, you are saying to epoxy the whole car, then bodywork and plastic filler where needed, high build on the worked areas and in the neighborhood, guidecoat, sand and respray as needed until straight. Then sand entire surface and hit with high build. Then sand with 500 and then 600 wet and then go to color?

What is the advantage of not going straight to high build on the whole car? Just saving materials?

It is a weekend project, so my goal is to get the big stuff pounded out and then get it to bare metal and into epoxy. Ten chip away at the bodywork on the weekends as I can. Once pretty well dialed, then I can go to P/S and Then get it in final. At a minimum, I will be 7 days between phases, sometimes it might be more like 14 days as my shop is out of town.

Just to be clear, when you say bodywork and then spot prime, are you talking hammer and dolly bodywork or filler bodywork?

I guess that is one thing that has confused me. Should I be doing 99% of my hammer and dolly work before epoxy, or does it really matter? Seems like I would want to hammer on the primed surface as little as possible.

When you strip to bare metal, any patches that need to be welded in are usually done then. The same with hammer and dolly work (which is best done before you strip the car IIRC).

Once you have two coats of epoxy, let it set overnight (24 hours) at 70 degrees and the next day lightly block sand it with something like 150 grit.
The epoxy will act like a guide coat with the low spots remaining shiny.
You can then apply your filler and work to feather it into the surrounding epoxy primer.
Once this is done, it is best to spot those areas with some epoxy primer to seal the filler in epoxy thus protecting it.

At this point you can spray your 2k build primer. Generally 2-3 coats will be a good starting point. When cured apply a guide coat (I like 3M Dry Guide Coat) and then block sand with a least a 9" sanding block and a coarse grit paper just to get the panels straight.
You do not want to press hard on the sanding block but let the paper do the work. When it quits cutting, change the paper.

Most of your 2k will end up on the floor. This is good because too much build is not recommended.

If you get the guide coat off and have don't have metal showing everywhere, you are making progress.
Shoot another coat or two of build primer. Guide coat and this time block sand with say 180 -220 grit just to remove the guide coat.
If all looks well proceed to your wet sanding steps. I prefer to use guide coat on these as well.

he ^^ explains it a little clearer than I did.

epoxy and body work, I like to do all my heavy work welding and hammer work on the bare metal. to simplify it more you can do ALL your body work on the bare metal welding and filler work. then coat the complete striped body with epoxy OR direct to metal hi build primer. you keep saying primer surfacer i'm not sure what you mean? you shouldn't need it the HI BUILD will do everything you need.
Jay D.

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:When you strip to bare metal, any patches that need to be welded in are usually done then. The same with hammer and dolly work (which is best done before you strip the car IIRC).

Once you have two coats of epoxy, let it set overnight (24 hours) at 70 degrees and the next day lightly block sand it with something like 150 grit.
The epoxy will act like a guide coat with the low spots remaining shiny.
You can then apply your filler and work to feather it into the surrounding epoxy primer.
Once this is done, it is best to spot those areas with some epoxy primer to seal the filler in epoxy thus protecting it.

At this point you can spray your 2k build primer. Generally 2-3 coats will be a good starting point. When cured apply a guide coat (I like 3M Dry Guide Coat) and then block sand with a least a 9" sanding block and a coarse grit paper just to get the panels straight.
You do not want to press hard on the sanding block but let the paper do the work. When it quits cutting, change the paper.

Most of your 2k will end up on the floor. This is good because too much build is not recommended.

If you get the guide coat off and have don't have metal showing everywhere, you are making progress.
Shoot another coat or two of build primer. Guide coat and this time block sand with say 180 -220 grit just to remove the guide coat.
If all looks well proceed to your wet sanding steps. I prefer to use guide coat on these as well.

You mentioned the initial sanding of the 2k with coarse grit. What are you thinking in terms of grit? Something like 120?

You also mentioned that once I have the guide coat sanded and if I don’t “have metal showing everywhere”, etc. if I do blow through to metal, would you tap down the highs, spot epoxy prime the metal portions, and cover it with build primer again, feathering it out to the edges? Just want to be certain I completely understand.

badsix wrote::goodpost: he ^^ explains it a little clearer than I did.

epoxy and body work, I like to do all my heavy work welding and hammer work on the bare metal. to simplify it more you can do ALL your body work on the bare metal welding and filler work. then coat the complete striped body with epoxy OR direct to metal hi build primer. you keep saying primer surfacer i'm not sure what you mean? you shouldn't need it the HI BUILD will do everything you need.
Jay D.

Maybe I am using the wrong nomenclature. By PS, I meant a 2k high build primer. I have seen the dtm primers, but is it better to use epoxy and then go to a 2k primer, or is it better to just use a dtm? Does it change things based on the fact that this project will sit for fairly long periods between rounds of me working on the bodywork?

wheel it and call it good !

jkesselr wrote:You mentioned the initial sanding of the 2k with coarse grit. What are you thinking in terms of grit? Something like 120?

You also mentioned that once I have the guide coat sanded and if I don’t “have metal showing everywhere”, etc. if I do blow through to metal, would you tap down the highs, spot epoxy prime the metal portions, and cover it with build primer again, feathering it out to the edges? Just want to be certain I completely understand.

When you lightly block sand the epoxy primer any high spots should be dealt with then. This is the stage where you try to get all remaining body work done.
The 2k primer is really meant to take care of the many minor imperfections left in the paint that the eye may not see and the hand cannot feel.
(Note: if your car is really needing a lot of attention a polyester primer like Featherfill or SlickSand is the better option.)

To get a car really straight, I generally use black epoxy and gray 2k.
Block sand first round with 80 until the black starts showing. This will leave 2k only in the low spots.
Example:


The next round of 2k gets guided coat and is block sanded with 180 just to remove the guide coat.
Example:


From there is it guided coated again and then wet sanded with 320 grit. After that you have a couple of options:
1. Guide coat and wet sand with 600 to remove the 320 scratches, Clean, dry and spray color.
2. Spray a sealer coat and if it all looks great let flash and spray your color. (You can also Wet sand sealer coat with 600 to be on the safe side.)

Your base coat should have a dull sheen or even a flat look to it. The key is to spray it evenly without worrying about full coverage on the first coat. Generally I spray 3 coats of base to get "true color" but lighter colors and cheap paint may take more coats.
Example:


Three coats of clear minimum. If you plan to cut and buff I would shoot four coats to give you a little cushion.


There are Sticky Posts at the top of each forum. You can find out how to Prep for paint, what sandpaper grit to use, how to use guide coat and how to cut and buff.
Also, you can visit the members project sections and see the many pictures and explanations of work being done by others.