Single Stage problems

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:59 am
i can't really tell from the picture but your not running an oiler in that manifold setup are you.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:03 pm
glytch5 wrote:front end of my air dryer setup-hose hooks up to this before going out to the gun:


I use that same setup in my Pig Barn Shop, but with two more filters added, one prior and one after. The one prior is just another water trap/regulator and the one after is a desiccant dryer. I also use a bulb at my gun and a fisheye eliminator filter at the base of my clear gun.

Another thing that I do now is wet the floor of the Pig Barn prior to my final wipe down.

I used to blow out the shop the morning that I would shoot and I was getting all kind of trash (not what your issue is) until one of the board guys explained that I was just mixing all the dust up right before I started shooting.

I never really see any trash in my primer or usually even my BC. It does show up in my Clear. So you may actually have the same issues, but it is just not as evident.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:23 pm
No, I am not using an oiler.

That is an awesome setup man!

I do not think my compressor is powerful enough to give me any flow with that much filtration.. too much restriction for me.

I don't paint large areas, my tank is a 20 gallon but its only a 2 horse compressor.

I am painting outside in home made paint booths with a fan, so not garage dust.

We just trapped some water from the drain valve on the compressor, I have it in a cup and it is colored like oil... or like rust whichever it is. I am going to leave it overnight and see if it evaporates... I really hope its not oil because its a brand new compressor... I am known for buying defective stuff though.

I know some oil with this design is going to happen... but I was hoping my filter would be able to catch small amount... afterall thats what it is meant to do!



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:47 am
I kind of figured you were using way too small of a compressor :rolleyes: but good news is most small elcheapos sold today use a cheap Oil less compressor meaning they are a Vain style pump, Not a Piston style pump.
If it is indeed a Vain style pump it kinda eliminates oil from your compressor but not Old air hoses that could have been used on an old piston style pump?
Also there could be contaminants from your Copper pipe from sweating the fittings.
Most Fluxes used in Solder are water soluble guess whats in your air? Ya its before your filters but was it always that way? also those are very small filters and don't take a lot before there saturated.
Your air filter assembly is not great, But I do not feel its causing your problems although I wouldn't rule it out either.

I believe the issue is ether coming from where your spraying at and or Not cleaning your parts prior to sanding and spraying.
As I said before even the oils in your skin on your hands can and will cause contamination issues. Some contaminants can sit on a surface and will lay under some coating's and as they cure the contaminant will bleed through and lay on Top of the new coating, you may not be able to see it but its their this is what may be happening to you?

Regular Chemical Wax and Grease remover Does not remove ALL contaminates! A Water Born Wax and Grease remover is also needed!!!
I had to prove this fact to one of my Helpers once By Proving that Regular Chemical Wax and grease remover DOES NOT remove ALL contaminants! especially the oils from your skin a Water Born Wax and Grease remover is needed to do that!

Different contaminates require different cleaners!
I use Both Chemical and Water born W/G removers on all my bare metal projects.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12418

Parts should be De greased with W/G remover and then washed with a good detergent that rinses clean before sanding! Other wise Its very possible to sand Impurity's into your metal and then there embedded into the metal or substrate and will keep coming back even with steel parts!

Aluminum should be Treated with Aluma Prep and Then treated with Alodine prior too being sprayed with a Zinc oxide Epoxy.

Water Traps and air filters are not all the same, Not everyone needs an elaborate system.
I use an elaborate water Trap system of Pipe and air tanks to Trap water, even in Death valley where I live I get a Lot of water in my air.
I plumbed the shop with 1 inch pipe around the shop with various Taps for air hoses then on too a Devilbiss Dad500 filter system mounted to my Paint booth strictly for use in my paint booth and My Plasma cutter only. both require clean dry air!

In the Booth I have a Air pressure Regulator and a dedicated air hose that is Hard plumbed too the regulator, no quick disconnect! so anyone in my shop has to physically go get tools to unbolt the hose from the regulator and find a quick disconnect fittings connector's too use the hose else were in the shop. I say connector's because they would need Male and female connectors because My female Paint booth hose connector is a special Hi flow fitting for my Paint guns only which all have special Hi flow fittings that don't fit or work with my other air hoses or air tools in my shop that the air tools use.
This has Prevented it from being moved around the shop and getting contaminated by the other air outlets so far.
https://www.autorefinishdevilbiss.com/p ... d-500.aspx

As I said before Contamination issues are the worst to track down and solve, and Very expensive Because Frustration will have you buying everything new trying to eliminate possible causes, more times than not so much is replaced and new processes implemented that the cause is never pinpointed it just goes away.
An once of prevention such as what I have done with my air hose and special fittings helps a lot if there is more than one person in your shop.
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:39 pm
Thank you for that it!

So I have the largest 120v compressor I could get. Its a 20 gallon 550 ish dollar Husky... so it is absolutely NOT an oil free setup.

The flux I used in the pipes is the old acid stuff, probably from the 80s. Not water soluble.

This all makes sense but I must say again... ONLY single stage paint is doing this! It must just be more sensitive to contamination then others.... or it is a contaminated batch.

I did an interesting experiment last night. I put one of those cheap water/oil separators right on my outlet of the dryer and ran it at around 60 PSI for a while.

Not even a tinkle of liquid came out. There is never any liquid on my hoses when I take tools off either... however there is plenty of water droplets on the hose coming straight off the compressor... so that system has to be doing something.

I will say not once did that system auto drained yet... at least not that I can tell. When I open my trap valve, I once got a tiny droplet of water... it is mostly bone dry when I open that valve though.

PS: not a shop just a garage... no one else in there but me! Thank you so much for the reply, I will come back to it while re evaluating.

it is almost winter time! Last couple weeks of being able to spary up here in NY.

Is the cold weather the problem? I only shoot above 55 F



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:16 pm
I am done I Tried :knockout:
Dennis Barnett
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:15 pm
You are being a great help.

It has been too cold the passed few days so I can't try any of these new things yet, as soon as I can I will let you know how it goes.

Thank you! I know you tried that is what I was hoping for, this has been a big help. I guess its mostly up to me.

I am going to do what you said and try to not fix the problem by just throwing money at stuff and figuring out of its the process.

Does styrofoam contain something bad that could effect the parts? I did build my holder for my smaller pieces out of thick styrofoam.



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:11 pm
I appreciate the personal message, BUT Its like your shopping and looking for an answer you like instead of listening to what the probable causes are.
Do not take the following as callous or condescending please! I am not trying to offend you or anyone else as that's not what I am trying to do or say.

But While you may think your equipment is satisfactory for the job at hand in reality its way below minimums especially your compressor while you may be proud of it, Its little more than a Toy for airing up tires I am sure you don't wanna hear that but its true.

The Air filter assembly you have while a couple other members here have and use the same filter assembly or one that looks like it, they also have been told the same thing, it is very much to small to do the job at hand, and it too is little more than a toy.

Which brings us to your chosen choice of materials and your Processes used?
And no you shouldn't be using Styrofoam as a Parts holder while spraying.
I my self Hang small parts or lay them on a Table covered with masking paper.

There are ways to save money while painting BUT none of them are by buying substandard equipment or materials.
Your doing a one off paint job on a Bike most of us are doing auto restorations and are doing more than one paint job, Their is no way to save money doing one paint job or two or three even! Quality tools and equipment are just too expensive to realize a cost savings. This is a VERY expensive hobby! Supply prices go up monthly! what you pay today is likely to double tomorrow.

Every thing Needs to be CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN I cant stress that enough every thing and every step has to be CLEAN! Dust, dirt, grease & wax free! they are all your enemy!
You should also be spraying in some sort of Clean room even if its just a Plastic Tent.
Since your out in the open it could be as simple as random Dust Bunny causing your fish eyes. The Truth is No one can tell you where you failed in your process, we weren't there to watch over you and any thing could be causing it.

I started out painting cars 25 years ago because I thought I could do it cheaper than the 3 grand the local auto body shop wanted to paint my car.
I did it myself and it cost me almost 5 grand before I was done.
My second and third car wasn't much better on cost savings but I enjoyed the work and and didn't give up and found this web sight and started listening to guys who knew what they where doing! instead of listening to the guy selling me Paint supply's he loved me! But his advise SUCKED! Listen to guys who own their own shops or other Paint pro's who are actually doing the work! Not some guy selling you what he needs to move off the shelf.
Over the years I have spent thousands of dollars replacing Junk that many said was the cats meow only to come back to what works and what other pro's use NOT whats being sold at Eastwood or what some guy on You tube says.
There are a Lot of people making videos on you tube that HAVE no Business running there mouths putting out Bad information and BAD recommendations.
To know the difference comes with experience! That said there are also some good ones too not all are bad.

I have learned a lot over the years here and from other professionals, I try to give back when I can, I thank ALL my mentors and my Pears who put up with me and my hard head.
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:27 pm
Shopping around?

Looking for help with a problem is "shopping around" ?

You know what they say, if all you have is dirt to spew, say nothing at all.

"don't take this personally, but everything you bought is trash and so are you"

Have a great one! I don't think this forum is for me.



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:51 pm
Thats not what I said at all :cry:
I suggest rereading what you said and what I and others have said.

internet forums are devoid of emotion Like I said I mean not to be condescending or hurtful.
Please reread the posts
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.
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