OK.......

I'm getting the point.

I think my garage painting jobs will stay at 1K. They look great, they just won't be as hard wearing or stone chip proof.

Being a kiwi I'm not obsessed about perfection, I like to aim for "pretty good" and get things done.

Thank you you guys, and I mean that most sincerely. And thanks for the mentions of health issues. I hope you get better and I'll avoid that myself.

I've got a great paint supplier, an ex spray painter, who has been positively critiquing my work and he says "It's pretty good for an armature, but certainly not a good professional's work LOL" So I'll keep you guys posted as to how the job is going.

To follow up on paintpots 1st post in the thread I use a cartridge type respirator and know I have less than adequate air change at times, especially now painting larger items at my cousins shop. I tend to get in, get the work done and get out during flash times especially when shooting the clear. My point regarding paintpot’s post is, is a one month cycle time for cartridges adequate? I change mine out much more frequently than that and was told to store it in a zip lock bag to preserve the charcoal element. If I forget to put it in the bag I’ll most likely swap on new ones, especially for some big area work. To me it’s cheaper than going to a doctor and I consider them just another consumable. Not being critical of paintpot, just curious as to what others consider the life cycle of a cartridge is even in ideal situations. NFT5’s input is duly noted and why I change mine out more frequently than some others may. I also keep covered for health and contamination both.

About 15 years ago the neighbor of a coworker died using iso mixed clear in his garage without a respirator spraying a gift for his wife...two days before Christmas.

JT

The root problem with ALL filtration which involves carbon is that there is no real quantitative testing system or indicators which show when the carts have absorbed their max. amount. If you ever want to be a famed inventor develop a mask with carts with a tab on them that changes color when it is time to change carts. When I was first in the furniture restoration biz. we were given lab data sheets that showed how carbon filter masks performed in response to different working environments and exposures. Testing done in a production furniture finishing booth had the carts lasting a couple of weeks. Testing done with a person operating a Methylene Chloride based stripping tank in a production ventilated area had the carts saturated in 18 minutes. There is just so many variables that affect how much stuff loads up in those carts...... Supplied breathing systems give you 100% breathable air continuously.
Wow.... he died. I got off pretty easy....

I can't see someone dyeing from a relatively small dose of iso. must of had a severe allergic reaction.
Jay D.

depends on how often PaintPot uses his mask, if its a few times a week and in a sealed bag once a month COULD be ok. agian it depends on air flow i was in my boys booth, it a heated down draft you could spray most of a car and never smell any paint he said doing a roof you'll get some blowback but even its minimal. I agree not everyone has this equipment. but you can't spray paint in a small garage with little or no air movement and expect anything to work other than a supplied air hood.
Jay D.

I have a question, or 2, I think I may have asked before but this seems like a good place to ask again. Are there paints out there without the isocyanate? I found this when I googled it.

https://www.jawel.co.uk/index.php?main_ ... th=122_184 any good?

I also see bill911 said he was going to use 1K paint, is it without Isocyanate and why isn't it used or mentioned if the other is bad for us?

I will be spraying in a garage with air flow and a full air-supply mask, but if there is a paint that works without the safety concern maybe I would consider it. Also do the primers, sealers, 2Kpaint, or if it's a Base Clear coat system which do and don't have isocyanate.



TX
Mr fixit_PDX
Chris

PS. In doing some more reading I read about a non isocyanate air dry converter anyone work with or know about it?

Mrfixit_PDX wrote:
I also see bill911 said he was going to use 1K paint, is it without Isocyanate and why isn't it used or mentioned if the other is bad for us?

Chris the clear I've been using is PPG 1K Premium Clear Coat 526-48231 with PPG AAA thinners. I've been getting great results with it but I believe it's not as hard or durable as a 2K clear. I use it over a base coat of Deltron D772 silver with 15% matting.

As per most things I'd like to get better, and certainly would use one of these isocynate free clear coats if it was available and compatible.

I've had my dose. I wasn't spraying - just went back into the booth to do some things before the clear had set and was still letting off vapour. Stayed in there about 25 minutes and spent the next year with what seemed like severe asthma. Ok now but won't even go into a booth without at least a mask.

Bill911 wrote:I'd like to get better, and certainly would use one of these isocynate free clear coats if it was available and compatible.

Don't. They're yellow, they're impossible to rework, they're hard to spray and they never quite harden up. Rubbish, even the ones from the big manufacturers.

Mrfixit_PDX wrote:Also do the primers, sealers, 2Kpaint, or if it's a Base Clear coat system which do and don't have isocyanate.

Some epoxies and special purpose plastic primers have their own hardener which is non-iso. But that doesn't make it good. Read some of the SDS - you'll be horrified at the health impacts. Just about all other products, if they're 2K, use an isocyanate hardener, some just more than others.

1K products don't (unless you put it in yourself) but they're still full of very bad for you organic vapours. Use 1K without a mask if you want to die slowly.

badsix wrote:I can't see someone dyeing from a relatively small dose of iso. must of had a severe allergic reaction.

Read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

and this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isocyanate#Toxicity

Charcoal Masks

Not all are created equally None are really rated for ISOs either to my Knowledge? some claim to be ok while Painting But as already said theirs no way to know when they become saturated and no longer effective.
Yes Bagging helps extend life BUT seriously if its Life is really shortened by sitting on a shelf without being bagged how long is a used mask really gonna live being bagged with Paint residue in its filters from being used? Not long.

I need to look into a Fresh air systems again but I like the freedom of a Mask.

Something else not discussed above is dermal exposure.

Traditionally it was thought that getting isocyanate hardener on your skin would result in perhaps an immediate rash or sensitize you for future rashes but newer research indicates that dermal exposure can have implications for the development of respiratory problems (either directly or cause sensitization).

I'd also read that the newer isocynate formulations are less likely to cause direct skin irritation. If true this could lead people to think getting the stuff on their skin isn't an issue.

There are also several papers that imply latex gloves are insufficient, that isocynate will pass directly through them. You need nitrile or better.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1849909 "The primary isocyanate exposure routes are through the respiratory tract and the skin. Historically, the focus has been on inhalation exposures. Increased use of less-volatile MDI and polymeric isocyanates, as well as improved hygiene practices, have resulted in reductions in inhalation exposures to volatile monomer (Bello et al. 2004), thus potentially increasing the relative importance of skin exposure. Isocyanate skin exposure could contribute a significant part of the total body burden. For example, 1% skin absorption of a small MDI droplet (10 mg) would deliver a dose approximately 4.5-fold (450%) higher than the inhalation exposure at the current short-term UK occupational exposure limit (15-min, 70 μg NCO/m3) or approximately 50% of the corresponding 8-hr (20 μg NCO/m3) standard, assuming 100% lung retention and a ventilation rate of 7 L/min (Bello et al. 2004)."

A 10mg droplet is nothing, 10ml of hardener is ~10,000mg.

Something to think about.