Hi Guys,

I have been approached by the owner of a '60's era MG D roadster. He tells me that it is all in either epoxy primer or some parts are in self etching. Assuming it only needs a final sanding, How should I approach a price to finish this? I have only done bike stuff and normally I would say thanks but no thanks BUT, it is a small car with small parts and I kinda want to give it a shot. He has offered up his storage unit to spray it in so he is not expecting a concours job. Should i just shoot him a price or go by a hourly rate. Suggestions??

The ONLY way I work on other people's stuff is on a Time and Material basis.
I have a contract which they must sign stating so and guaranteeing my work for 1 year. It states that I will bill once a month for time and materials. If at any time the owner wants to cancel the job, he just has to pay the bill for that month and he can pick up his vehicle.
I usually ask for a $1000 down to cover initial material costs.

Trying to quote work like this is nearly impossible because once you get it stripped and see what's really there things usually take a big turn.

See this truck for example. The guy wanted a repaint because of some cracking on the hood and tailgate.


Looks pretty straight and clean but here's what that side of the bed really looked like:




By the way, I posted an example of the Spreadsheets I use to track my Time and Material here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7966&start=8490

I 100% agree with Jim
You have to strip it back down You cant build on some else's work !
Too much to go wrong with your own work let alone trying to build on some one else's.

And another Point of advice
If you have to ask how much to charge a customer Your defiantly NOT ready to work for others! That's my advise! you can do what you want, but I would advise against taking it on.

Agree.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the advice. In all likelihood, I will not take the job on. I do want to see it though and talk to the owner to see what he really expects out of it. I agree that an hourly rate would be the only way to do it.

Doright wrote:And another Point of advice
If you have to ask how much to charge a customer Your defiantly NOT ready to work for others!

Well, I wasn't really asking how much to charge rather than if most just quote a total or charge by the hour. I guess I should of titled it more accurately as "How To Charge". I have now changed it. With the bike stuff I have been doing, I tell them up front a total. Sometimes I have less time into than I thought it would be and sometimes I underestimate my time. I'm really doing it more as a fun project that (hopefully) I gain a bit more experience with each job--so far it has worked out.

I never give a Total price too many variables, I always charge by the hour, leave Bidding to Pros who run full blown body shops that have lots of hired help they can afford to risk it.
Most wont touch a Full repaint these days any way, They make more from Dent repair.
Full repaints are a money loser for them to much labor! most people wont pay. You end up cutting corners to break even putting out a Bad product or work for penny's losing labor hours to do it right.

After you get a dozen or so full repaints under your belt you'll start to understand.
Full repaint is cool But its a crap load of labor to do it right and most people just wont Pay the price! many Buy the equipment and learn to do it themselves! either way a Full repaint is super expensive!

My Boss at work wants me to repaint his Truck he told me how he knows a guy that will paint for him for $1500 I told him that was a screaming good deal to jump on it! That I cant even buy the materials for less than $2500-$3000! Told him I wanted guys number I had a bunch of cars I wanted him to paint for me! Funny that the truck still hasn't been painted lol.

Rebel Racing wrote: I do want to see it though and talk to the owner to see what he really expects out of it.

Almost all start out with "I don't need or want a show car" or "It doesn't need to be 100% perfect" And the list of BS statements goes on and on. When in reality they are saying I want a perfect paint job BUT I don't want to spend any money on it.
Believe me when I say they are the first to run around the car and Point out flaws and Bad mouth your work and complain how much you tried to charge them. And OR Take you to Court over something on the bill or work performed or not performed that didn't need to be done or needed to be done.

If and when you have to go to court The Judge looks at you as if you are a Know nothing Amateur out trying to Hustle people as You don't have a Legitimate Business license to do the work in a certified shop with Insurance. Even though You may or may not have certifications from ASE or ICAR or another governmental agency such as myself.
The Key here is a Legitimate Business license liability insurance and a security Bond for your business.

I get asked all the time to paint cars I politely say I am X number of years out from taking on new work, OR tell them the truth That I only work on my OWN cars then sell when completed my way! NOT a customers way! That takes the customer OUT of the equation!
If they are really serious I will buy their car from them for a Dollar do the work to it my way without argument then sell it back to them when done with a Bill of sale stating Sold as is where is with NO warranty expressed or implied! If they cant afford it or refuse to pay its sold to the next highest bidder at auction if they refuse to pay!
I haven't had too many takers BUT its simple & it works for me! I don't get much return work and I don't have to deal with people that don't know anything about cars or the repair process.

The point is this is a Very expensive Hobby, Its capable of making a LOT of money IF you can attract the right clientele. as everyone has an old car they want to restore drive for a while then sell it.
They wanna find someone like you or me to do the work they cant CHEAP so they can drive the car around enjoy it for a while then SELL it for a Million dollars as all these old clunkers are worth X amount of money! They seen it on TV! It has to be true!
It only takes X number of weeks to do! they can get it painted for X amount get the interior redone for X amount and have a Rockstar Hot rod worth X amount and then sell it!

The reality is Good quality Products that Last are not cheap, Quality tooling Is not cheap, Why should you work cheap? One of the many problems That pops up comes when trying out new products or cheaper products that may or may not last! Your still Liable if it goes to Pot and it needs to be repainted, Any Repairs you do Like welding IF It Starts rusting out again Your liable, IF it falls off or cracks down the road your liable. And Don't kid your self That Buddy of yours will be right back in a Heart beat for you to fix it for him for free even if hes the one who insisted on using the cheaper product, Insisted that it didnt need to be a show car or 100% perfect, he will take you to court if you take one red cent from him! People are all your Buddy's or friends till money is involved!

People want perfect Wallmart cheap that lasts forever.

Couple of the ones I have had :

Friend: "Dont weld in new metal, fill it with fiberglass filler" "I seen it on Youtube its good enough for me and It will last forever"
Friend: " I dont need Epoxy" and "I don't need a Need new fenders" "Just Put Bondo on it"

Buddy: "I Burned the Paint when I Buffed through the Clear coat when doing the Cut and Buff"
Me: "That Sucks! I told you to be careful"
Buddy: Can you fix it?
Me: "Yes, Its gonna be this much"
Buddy: "I already paid you" You need to do it for free as warranty work"
Me: 'You didn't want to pay me to do the Cut and Buff you where gonna do it yourself"
X Buddy: "You didn't put enough clear on it on purpose so this would happen, your responsible" "You knew this would happen you didn't put enough clear on so it would happen you want to make more money off me"


Friend: "My engine Blew up"
Me: "Oh man that sucks"
Friend: "You had my car for a couple weeks you damaged my engine when you had my car You owe me X amount of dollars for this other shop to fix my engine!"
Me: "I only painted your Bumper, Hood & fender"
Friend: "Ya but you took my car out and Raced it around Your responsible!" "A friend of mine saw you out racing it around"
me: "I painted that 2 years ago? your car blew up last week? And I never drove your car"
NONE FRIEND:
"I will see you in Court"

ALL TRUE! Both issues went to small claims !

Dennis. It's not just your abrasive nature I've heard exactly the same from customers, one case of which is still to go to Small Claims.

NFT5 wrote::goodpost: Dennis. It's not just your abrasive nature I've heard exactly the same from customers, one case of which is still to go to Small Claims.

Abrasive nature?????
(Seriously I write it like I think it should sound lol... Maybe I am too Blunt?)

Yes I was very Ni-eve at one time Not so much any more.
IF a Guy can pull it off jumping through all the government Hoops I still think its a great business to get into, But They really Pile it on for a small business for a one or two man show type of thing WAY too much overhead, way too much Red tape and that's just the beginning! The customers are a nightmare!

I am glad you jumped in you've been their done that, You know all too well what I am saying is true.

I cant say I have had much fun working for others, I like keeping it a Hobby!
People these days all think some one owes them something, every one taking each other to court, The Neighbors Dog Ate my Vett! I asked him to buy me a USED Fender off ebay that needs a few repairs and Two Quarts of Base coat with activator.
That was 3 days ago He calls me today hey that fender is used and damaged I said ya I was trying to be cool a new one was $600 plus shipping I didn't think you told your dog to Eat my car BUT I do expect you to do what is right.
I am gonna do what is right and fix it myself with a used part and supply my own labor to you free and my own Primmer and Clear. And He & his wife thinks they are getting screwed???????



Perhaps I should Just get a written Estimate for the whole thing and take him to court?
I have been drug into court for far less.

Like a Business associate told me long ago "You are NOT helping people by charging them less than the job is worth. It took me a LONG time to understand what he was saying.