Nailed it Dave.

I have the full Cromax range and often choose to use the economy basecoats simply because they save me money. Big cost difference between binders that are $400/tin vs $90. Sometimes I have to use an extra coat but, as you say, value shades are the key.

Range of formulae and variants are almost exactly the same for the 610 line as for the premium 6000 base and colours are exactly the same (in the same variant, of course). As with any of the big name manufacturers, there is no quality difference - just a different way of achieving the same end. Axalta support me with a lifetime warranty regardless of which base I use, so long as it's used in the Cromax system with compatible products.

Dave,
I agree the paint isn't always the problem but low grade paint, needing help (a full painting system like you and Chris have as pros) doesn't help a beginner trying to paint his car. That's all I was trying to say.

NFT5 wrote::goodpost: Nailed it Dave.

I have the full Cromax range and often choose to use the economy basecoats simply because they save me money. Big cost difference between binders that are $400/tin vs $90. Sometimes I have to use an extra coat but, as you say, value shades are the key.

Range of formulae and variants are almost exactly the same for the 610 line as for the premium 6000 base and colours are exactly the same (in the same variant, of course). As with any of the big name manufacturers, there is no quality difference - just a different way of achieving the same end. Axalta support me with a lifetime warranty regardless of which base I use, so long as it's used in the Cromax system with compatible products.

exactly sir !

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:Dave,
I agree the paint isn't always the problem but low grade paint, needing help (a full painting system like you and Chris have as pros) doesn't help a beginner trying to paint his car. That's all I was trying to say.

nope, the problem for beginners is, they use shop line without the knowledge of using a complete system, it does not perform as they expect, they toss that line away and move to the next line, repeat that 4 times and they're posting that this and that paint line suck, at that point they have passed up any opportunity to learn appropriate application making any paint line a success, Gunslinger, one of the factory Harley Davidson refinishers uses shopline and very successful, since they are painting it for production they do not need the color match tech of say Envirobase,

Also you mention "low grade paint needing help" that is not true, I spray Envirobase, Global, and DBC, and Delfleet, all top of the line paint, and they do require using the complete system, "value shades" its not needing help its the correct way to use paint.

Well I am not buying a complete system just to use substandard paint (which is what it is in my opinion) when I can buy paint that sprays and covers in 2 - 3 coats without it.

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:Well I am not buying a complete system just to use substandard paint (which is what it is in my opinion) when I can buy paint that sprays and covers in 2 - 3 coats without it.

yeah buddy, if you can make it work then keep rolling for sure.

PainterDave wrote:

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:Well I am not buying a complete system just to use substandard paint (which is what it is in my opinion) when I can buy paint that sprays and covers in 2 - 3 coats without it.

yeah buddy, if you can make it work then keep rolling for sure.

Dave, you and Chris are on another level all together and I really appreciate the knowledge you both share with us hobbyist types.

PainterDave wrote:

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:Dave,
I agree the paint isn't always the problem but low grade paint, needing help (a full painting system like you and Chris have as pros) doesn't help a beginner trying to paint his car. That's all I was trying to say.

nope, the problem for beginners is, they use shop line without the knowledge of using a complete system, it does not perform as they expect, they toss that line away and move to the next line, repeat that 4 times and they're posting that this and that paint line suck, at that point they have passed up any opportunity to learn appropriate application making any paint line a success, Gunslinger, one of the factory Harley Davidson refinishers uses shopline and very successful, since they are painting it for production they do not need the color match tech of say Envirobase,

Also you mention "low grade paint needing help" that is not true, I spray Envirobase, Global, and DBC, and Delfleet, all top of the line paint, and they do require using the complete system, "value shades" its not needing help its the correct way to use paint.

Dave what is a complete system? I've got a shop with lots of clean dry air, tach cloths, waterborne wax and grease remover, the right additives for the paint, proper mixing cups, a good gun, is that the kind of thing you mean?
What about "Appropriate application" I am thinking that is following the TD Sheet, and spraying not to thick or too dry, using the right flash times, proper and good quality primer, is that what you mean?
What is "correct value shade"? You said "coverage can be one of the differences (between a quality or poor quality job) but can be corrected with the correct value shades"

Thanks, This is my second paint job and I'm just trying to figure out what I can do with this Omni paint because it's a great color match and it's single stage. I see so much of the repainted clears coming off from so many cars. I've got two 90's cars that have spent most of their lives out in the weather with paint that looks really great, that appear to have no clear coat, and would like to get the same kind of quality. I read that most of the 80's cars had single stage urethane factory paint jobs but it didn't mention the 90's. My 97 Rav4 and 94 Toyota pickup both have factory jobs without clears that look great, if very slightly faded.
I'm not averse to ditching the Omni and getting something better even if it means using a new color.

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:

PainterDave wrote:

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:Well I am not buying a complete system just to use substandard paint (which is what it is in my opinion) when I can buy paint that sprays and covers in 2 - 3 coats without it.

yeah buddy, if you can make it work then keep rolling for sure.

Dave, you and Chris are on another level all together and I really appreciate the knowledge you both share with us hobbyist types.

i appreciate you as well, and you have gave me some key tips over the years and always look forward to your posts

Bustedwrench wrote:

PainterDave wrote:

'68 Coronet R/T wrote:Dave,
I agree the paint isn't always the problem but low grade paint, needing help (a full painting system like you and Chris have as pros) doesn't help a beginner trying to paint his car. That's all I was trying to say.

nope, the problem for beginners is, they use shop line without the knowledge of using a complete system, it does not perform as they expect, they toss that line away and move to the next line, repeat that 4 times and they're posting that this and that paint line suck, at that point they have passed up any opportunity to learn appropriate application making any paint line a success, Gunslinger, one of the factory Harley Davidson refinishers uses shopline and very successful, since they are painting it for production they do not need the color match tech of say Envirobase,

Also you mention "low grade paint needing help" that is not true, I spray Envirobase, Global, and DBC, and Delfleet, all top of the line paint, and they do require using the complete system, "value shades" its not needing help its the correct way to use paint.

Dave what is a complete system? Sealers in different shades, these help adjust color to a good match I've got a shop with lots of clean dry air, tach cloths, waterborne wax and grease remover, the right additives for the paint, proper mixing cups, a good gun, is that the kind of thing you mean?
What about "Appropriate application" I am thinking that is following the TD Sheet, and spraying not to thick or too dry, using the right flash times, proper and good quality primer, is that what you mean? yes sir sounds like your off to a good start,
What is "correct value shade"? You said "coverage can be one of the differences (between a quality or poor quality job) but can be corrected with the correct value shades" most colors these days use different shades of gray underneath now, this helps with coverage as well, most any paint line can have a 2 coat and drop coat coverage using the value shade system,

Thanks, This is my second paint job and I'm just trying to figure out what I can do with this Omni paint because it's a great color match and it's single stage. I see so much of the repainted clears coming off from so many cars. I've got two 90's cars that have spent most of their lives out in the weather with paint that looks really great, that appear to have no clear coat, and would like to get the same kind of quality. I read that most of the 80's cars had single stage urethane factory paint jobs but it didn't mention the 90's. My 97 Rav4 and 94 Toyota pickup both have factory jobs without clears that look great, if very slightly faded.
I'm not averse to ditching the Omni and getting something better even if it means using a new color.

Omni is fine, add 5% hardener in any basecoat, whatever hardener you use in clear will work,