Bustedwrench wrote:Thanks for that Chris, I'll try it.
And thanks for the PPG info. I'm not worried at all about price, I didn't even ask for the Omni. I asked for PPG because it was so highly recommended, THEN found out they had mixed me the low cost PPG (Omni) saying it was all they had for single stage and color match.
Dave says not to worry about Omni, just make sure I have a good shade match underneath it, and add 5% hardener to it. I'm almost ready to go that route. But I've put a lot of work into the whole body and I want the paint I put on it to last so been reading other threads about the pros and cons of acrylic enamel and urethane and have concluded that the single stage urethane would work differently but as well for me as the acrylic enamel. Just looking for more experienced opinion on the Omni now, I guess

here is the deal, most omni jobs fail due to the clear used on top, spend the money on good clear, I use 2021, omni wont fail with good UV protection

Thanks Dave, I might do that but I really don't like clear coat, just seen so much of it peeling off. What would you say is the best single stage (No clear) urethane paint on the market. PPG Delcron I don't think is available for single stage. I think Matco makes one and it does OEM colors which is what I have, a OEM color code. My OEM 94 toyota pickup has no clear and it's got a paint that's tough as nails

PainterDave wrote:here is the deal, most omni jobs fail due to the clear used on top, spend the money on good clear, I use 2021, omni wont fail with good UV protection

This, but I'd go further and say not just Omni, but any base coat (assuming it's put on right) and, indeed, any single stage direct gloss.

COB failures are most commonly due to insufficient clear. Any good quality clear has UV inhibitors, some more, some less, but all depend on the clear being applied at sufficient thickness for the UV protection to work. That means a clear coat thickness in the order of 60μm. Because clear is expensive manufacturers are reducing thickness and I've seen many new cars with only 70μm total paint thickness. Obviously the clear can't be as thick as it should be when the total is so low, so clear coat delamination happens as the clear to base bond is broken down by UV.

The same thing happens, slightly differently, with single stage/direct gloss/2K solid. There is one manufacturer with a factory in Thailand whose vehicles I've seen as low as 30μm in solid colours. Failures, especially in solid red, are common and the reason is simply not enough paint to do the job.

All that said, overthick paint is nearly as bad since the paint loses elasticity and chips badly.

Whether you go with COB or 2K DG is your choice. COB is a bit more forgiving and less likely to fade or go chalky. 2K DG is faster, simpler and cheaper. Whatever you do, use a quality product from a name brand manufacturer.

NFT5 wrote:

PainterDave wrote:here is the deal, most omni jobs fail due to the clear used on top, spend the money on good clear, I use 2021, omni wont fail with good UV protection

This, but I'd go further and say not just Omni, but any base coat (assuming it's put on right) and, indeed, any single stage direct gloss.

COB failures are most commonly due to insufficient clear. Any good quality clear has UV inhibitors, some more, some less, but all depend on the clear being applied at sufficient thickness for the UV protection to work. That means a clear coat thickness in the order of 60μm. Because clear is expensive manufacturers are reducing thickness and I've seen many new cars with only 70μm total paint thickness. Obviously the clear can't be as thick as it should be when the total is so low, so clear coat delamination happens as the clear to base bond is broken down by UV.

The same thing happens, slightly differently, with single stage/direct gloss/2K solid. There is one manufacturer with a factory in Thailand whose vehicles I've seen as low as 30μm in solid colours. Failures, especially in solid red, are common and the reason is simply not enough paint to do the job.

All that said, overthick paint is nearly as bad since the paint loses elasticity and chips badly.

Whether you go with COB or 2K DG is your choice. COB is a bit more forgiving and less likely to fade or go chalky. 2K DG is faster, simpler and cheaper. Whatever you do, use a quality product from a name brand manufacturer.

Thank you NFTS, That explains the urethane situation well. What is the backward ym?
I’m thinking about a good clear coat over my Omni now.

Bustedwrench wrote: What is the backward ym?

Dunno mate. What is a "backward ym"?

Wow, a whole lot of posts attempting to rescue Omni.
Could have had the car painted by now.

Uhhh....I think he is referring to the backward ym being this little critter..... µ
Means microns as in reference to microns of thickness concerning paint/finish films. Ohh, and you get that on my keyboard by pushing the Alt key and then 230 on the calculator pad. Hold the key, hit the numbers and let go of the Alt key and it magically appears....
µ

DarrelK wrote:Uhhh....I think he is referring to the backward ym being this little critter..... µ

Of course. Thanks. Yes, one thousandth of a millimetre. Fairly small.

Thanks you all, great to know. It was 34 last night (F) but I can get started in a couple days. I’m still curious why everybody says that with single stage you can’t fix a spraying mistake, like you can with COB. I’m guessing it has to do with being able to tell if it’s right earlier, on the COB, which would allow for another coat before needing a scuffing, whereas with CC, you can’t tell how the job looks until it’s too dry to paint over again, without scuffing. And I don’t see how you’d scuff a botched area and keep the added ( repairing) coat just to exactly that scuffed area. Hope that makes sense. Thanks