Respray Single Stage or Start Over

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 3:02 pm
I an amateur, and new to painting and need some advice.

The short:

I painted a hood over the factory paint with single stage, it is heavily artefacted, and needs to be repaired/repainted. Its a 'pearl' paint. I was forced to 'tent' in my unfinished garage to get a decent temperature, but did not allow my exhaust fan good flow.

In eastern zone 6 I have to pick my days carefully in November, however, I have 1 day next week the temp will be ok. It would fall aprox 5-6 days after the first painting, and I am unsure if there is a wait time before I can respray (ie. many spray cans say 'apply second coat within 1 hour or after 24 hours)

I have enough single stage for at least another coat (perhaps two?) I also have at least a pint left of 2 stage base I used on my bumper this spring, plenty to do the hood.

Its worth mentioning that I had a small area on the front lip that needed filler, and after finishing I used self etching primer because I was out of hi-build. Just read here on the forum etching primer might be a problem.

Should I:

Scuff/respray with the PPG single stage I already used (and what are the rules please for wait times/scuff/respray?)

OR

Scuff/respray with the Dimension base I used on my bumper cover this sping followed by clear (and what are the rules please for wait times, and product compatibility) I need to know if its ok to go over the single stage with the 2 stage base, or if a sealer is required (or something else)

OR

Something else


I'll be honest I am hating the single stage right now, and hope I never use it again, but if this can be fixed I will stick with it.

I would prefer a higher quality, more durable, and more aesthetically appealing job at the expense of labor, and cost. Any painting would most likely need to be accomplished in a single day, as I will not likely get 2 or more contiguous 70+ deg days here in zone 6 this year. Wait until spring could also be an option.


The Long:

My factory painted 2003 jeep has 'Brilliant Black Pearl' (paint code Chrysler PXR) in fairly good shape only minor defects from 'life' but the hood has of course taken the brunt of damage for an 18 y/o vehicle.

After having successfully refinished the rear bumper in late spring I felt confident to tackle the hood. The advice given to me by a young man at the counter of my local paint supply house, was to use single stage. I told him to serve it up, and after he said that hardener was recommended, bought that aswell.

Shame on me for not doing my research beforehand. I have now learned that single stage metallic does not 'cut' well (in relation to the settling of particles) and that single stage is more difficult for beginners because of the need to maintain proper distance, and good tuning of the gun settings to achieve a 'wet' finish,and there is in fact a 'dry' area. My understanding, based on reading, is that metallics are not usually recommended in a single stage. Being a metallic (pearl) paint, and having declared being an amateur, I dont believe he should have recommended single stage. Moot point.

The rear bumper cover I did this spring looks great. I was truly astonished I was able to achieve factory like finish so easily (the painting, not the prep)

For what its worth, I have 2 yrs formal and 25 yrs informal auto repair exp, including 2 yrs as a professional repair tech. Additionally I have some 'fringe' experience: minor body repairs i.e. dents, body filler, sanding, priming, buffing, hand glaze, spray can painting replacing panels. exterior trim etc. Often with reasonable to good results. Using a semi professional spray gun with automotive grade paint, and attempting to achieve professional quality results is new to me.

If it helps here are the items I am working with:

2003 Jeep

Eastwood Concours 2 (1.3mm/1.7mm nozzles)

PAINTED HOOD WITH (1.3mm Nozzle):

PPG - Main Layer
------------------------------
Brand Code: 5931
OEM Code: AXR XR PXR AY112AXR
Mixing Scheme: OMNI AU (MAE)
Variant: Prime

Omni Hardener MH202

Advantage - 114 Medium-Dry Urethane Reducer

2 stage paint used on bumper cover (not the hood)

Dimension

6B101041016-A

Sherwin Williams /63818/Brilliant Black (Base)

Acme - Finish 1 - FC720 (QTFC720) (Clear)

Acme - Finish 1 - FH612 (80ZFH612) (Hardener)

water and dissecting filters


The artefacts are REALLY difficult to photo:

hand.jpeg
hand print


hand2.jpeg
another hand print


ripple.jpeg
ripple were my plastic got in the wet paint


artefacts.jpeg
artefacts though difficult to see



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:09 pm
:welcome: nice post a little long i had to take a nap about half way through. i'm haveing trouble with artefacted what is that? my first question is the S/S stage you put on the hood it was catalyzed, correct? if so you can recoat probably any time with the same S/S. i'm not sure about the, (Dimension Base Coat) i'm assuming thats what it is.
it could cause lifting if the S/S hasn't dried long enough. you should have gotten a product information sheet with your paint. it will tell you when you can safely recoat it, though it probably won't say anything about applying base coat over it. you can also look it up on Google.
Jay D.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:46 pm
yeah sorry about being long winded. My objective was to answer any questions so there isnt a ton of back an forth days on end. its easier I think to give an answer the more info you have.

the artifacts/artefacts are just trash, dust, debris, perhaps you guys call them nibs. I'm not sure. They are not quite as bad as I first thought. though the panel is in my house I dont have really bright lights like in the shop. <--- I realize that dosnt make sense!

catalyzed? sorry I dont know all the lingo yet. If you mean hardener, then yes the ratio was 8:1:1 if it matters. Thats good news about the recoat time for the S/S. Thanks for the info.

your right, I should have gotten a product information sheet, and I will remember to ask next time. fwiw, they were out of labels for the paint cans. perhaps they dont have it together at that supply house. lol

anyway i'm leaning toward cutting and spraying it again with the S/S. Then stripping it in the spring and doing a base/clear.

The S/S is not for me. I might use it if I paint my backhoe, tractor, implement or some equipment, but I doubt I would ever use it on a car...

I have no intentions of putting any two stage on top of this S/S.



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:23 am
So I tracked down the product sheet for Omni AU MAE. It seems my gun pressure was too high, mid 20's. the sheet says 8-10 for hvlp. I used 20 min flash times. sheet says 5-10.

I read an article that says to use only 2000 grit on the single stage finish, but it wasnt clear if they were going to polish and finish or recoat. I need to recoat.

Anyone have a suggestion to what grit to prep the single stage before I recoat it?

Lesson learned. Always get a product sheet.



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:09 pm
you should be ok with 600 or 800 for the S/S. i assume you'll be doing it by hand? i read that your going to redo it in the spring, if so you could sand with 400 if its real orange peely. wet sand with all grits. make sure you get all the orange peel sanded out so its nice and smooth. to back up a little, activator, catalyst, hardener. are all the same or do the same thing. i'm thinking the 2000 is prep for buffing.
Jay D.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:24 pm
I can do hand or machine. Honestly dont have a preference.

600 wet sounds good, and finish with 800 wet hand...

Tues & wed we have 70+ deg weather, will let it set up couple days inside and be done with this for awhile.

Thanks for the help, and if you have any other suggestions they are welcome :)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 6:49 pm
Just so you know..... this statement is not quite right..... So I tracked down the product sheet for Omni AU MAE. It seems my gun pressure was too high, mid 20's. the sheet says 8-10 for hvlp. That 8 to 10 psi is for the pressure at the AIR CAP which, just guessing, requires more like a high 20s to 30 psi gun pressure...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:39 pm
DarrelK wrote:Just so you know..... this statement is not quite right..... So I tracked down the product sheet for Omni AU MAE. It seems my gun pressure was too high, mid 20's. the sheet says 8-10 for hvlp. That 8 to 10 psi is for the pressure at the AIR CAP which, just guessing, requires more like a high 20s to 30 psi gun pressure...
GOOD EYE! Darrel
Jay D.
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