NFT5 wrote:Righto. Let's go back to OP's original question.

Can clear be blended in? Of course it can.
Is it the "best" way to do it. No, certainly not best practice, but cheaper shops and mobile repairers do it all the time and, with some practice, it can be done so it's not (really) visible.
Will the edge come back and be visible in time, say a year or two? Yes. Rebuffing the edge usually fixes it again, temporarily.

Surface where you're going to put your blend must be prepped with P1500-P2000, beyond where the edge will be. Take the first coat of clear to about 50mm short of where you want the final edge to be and slightly feather out. Take second coat of clear over the edge of the first coat and feather where you want the final edge to be. Don't tilt the gun and spray beyond this line. Almost immediately swap guns and fit a mini or midi gun (say around 1.0mm with a really fine atomisation) which has been pre-loaded with a quality blending thinner. I use the Cromax one because I haven't used another that's better, but if you stick with the major brands you should be ok. Mist the blending thinner on. And I mean MIST. Very light spray about 50mm each side of where you finished the last coat of clear. Too much and it will run, too little and you won't melt the clear at the join in.

After the clear has fully dried, LIGHTLY buff over the edge. If you go too heavy you'll pick it up and peel it back and that's a rework.

Remember that at this edge the clear is too thin to do its job properly so expect that it will lift and peel later.

Oh yeah. The haze. Likely possibilities are that basecoat wasn't finished far enough back or that it was just put on too heavy (likely with a spray can) or that it was not the right kind of thinner (also highly possible). Substrate clear and new clear do need to be compatible or the blending thinner will melt one but not the other.

Lastly, would I do it on a black door? No way, unless there was a clear line like a rub strip or sharpish body line that I could hard mask or fly mask to and then just blend the clear along the bottom of the door. Even then, fraught with bad possibilities. The technique works best on narrow areas like quarter to cant rail or pillars or bumper bar sections. On a door I'd just clear the whole door - quicker to mask and takes the same time to paint. So you use an extra 100ml of clear. Who cares - the job is better and you're not giving yourself grief over trying to master a technique that some pro painters never get right.

you do very similar to this ^^^^, but use "Dupont 222 Mid Coat Adhesion Promotor". do some research on it and follow the instructions. it works very good for me. on your aerosol blending agent it's probably just not compatible with what you're doing and your materials.
Jay D.

So what you are saying is.

Yes it will look OK if you can be bothered to perfect the method eventually. But your going to get problems down the line regardless! So just do the whole panel

If that's the case that's fine. Obviosuly seeing videos on YouTube has just made me think there are easier ways to do it. But now I understand what you guys are saying and appreciate the help

Many thanks

fabio1605 wrote:Obviosuly seeing videos on YouTube has just made me think there are easier ways to do it. But now I understand what you guys are saying and appreciate the help

Many thanks

I'm sure that for a full time pro painter that is doing this all the time he can make the job look perfect. For me, I'll just clear the whole panel--my hat is off to the pro's who can fade it in. FWiW, my Dad, who pro painted in the '60's told me that when they faded, they just sprayed a mist coat of thinner in the blend area. Who know how it looked but I am sure it is an acquired skill and clearing the whole panel is likely the easiest way to match.

NFT5 wrote:Righto. Let's go back to OP's original question.

Can clear be blended in? Of course it can.
Is it the "best" way to do it. No, certainly not best practice, but cheaper shops and mobile repairers do it all the time and, with some practice, it can be done so it's not (really) visible.
Will the edge come back and be visible in time, say a year or two? Yes. Rebuffing the edge usually fixes it again, temporarily.

Surface where you're going to put your blend must be prepped with P1500-P2000, beyond where the edge will be. Take the first coat of clear to about 50mm short of where you want the final edge to be and slightly feather out. Take second coat of clear over the edge of the first coat and feather where you want the final edge to be. Don't tilt the gun and spray beyond this line. Almost immediately swap guns and fit a mini or midi gun (say around 1.0mm with a really fine atomisation) which has been pre-loaded with a quality blending thinner. I use the Cromax one because I haven't used another that's better, but if you stick with the major brands you should be ok. Mist the blending thinner on. And I mean MIST. Very light spray about 50mm each side of where you finished the last coat of clear. Too much and it will run, too little and you won't melt the clear at the join in.

After the clear has fully dried, LIGHTLY buff over the edge. If you go too heavy you'll pick it up and peel it back and that's a rework.

Remember that at this edge the clear is too thin to do its job properly so expect that it will lift and peel later.

Oh yeah. The haze. Likely possibilities are that basecoat wasn't finished far enough back or that it was just put on too heavy (likely with a spray can) or that it was not the right kind of thinner (also highly possible). Substrate clear and new clear do need to be compatible or the blending thinner will melt one but not the other.

Lastly, would I do it on a black door? No way, unless there was a clear line like a rub strip or sharpish body line that I could hard mask or fly mask to and then just blend the clear along the bottom of the door. Even then, fraught with bad possibilities. The technique works best on narrow areas like quarter to cant rail or pillars or bumper bar sections. On a door I'd just clear the whole door - quicker to mask and takes the same time to paint. So you use an extra 100ml of clear. Who cares - the job is better and you're not giving yourself grief over trying to master a technique that some pro painters never get right.

Many thanks for this...

What you said is exactly what has happened. I have buffed it too much and left a visible line.. Very visible. Horid Infact! Where the old clear stops. I've obviosuly taken off the blend product totally. So it's going to be a re work job regardless really.

After a closer inspection based on what you said I can see a bit of a poor effort on the base blend too.


On the cut and buff I've obviosuly gone through the fade out thinners.... And then probably through the blended paint too.

But now I know what I've done wrong it helps me understand the technicalities of whats actually gone on.

Obviously the YouTube guys get it right first time and don't explain the fragileness of what you are doing.

But a full rework it is then.

I will discard the use of fade out thinners full stop. And maybe only use them on very hard to size. Or thin areas (like lower side of car. Strips etc).

Mant thanks ntfs for your time to respond

fabio1605 wrote:anyway, il be sure to never ask anything on here again if this is what i get in response, its a shame as many people here have helped me before but your energy seems to be in to making it harder for people as opposed to easier

lighten up, dude.
if yer offended by coronets reply, yer gonna have problems in life.
cmon- ya did answer your own question. ya knew dam well blending want not the best option.

rules to life:
dont take life too seriously.
no one gets out alive.

tomsteve wrote:

fabio1605 wrote:anyway, il be sure to never ask anything on here again if this is what i get in response, its a shame as many people here have helped me before but your energy seems to be in to making it harder for people as opposed to easier

lighten up, dude.
if yer offended by coronets reply, yer gonna have problems in life.
cmon- ya did answer your own question. ya knew dam well blending want not the best option.

rules to life:
dont take life too seriously.
no one gets out alive.

I feel like there is something that no one seems to understand.....


When you see SOOOOO much talk on youtube/forums of using fade out thinners , you start to think am i doing things the wrong way, do i really need to clear the whole panel everytime, yes i did expect someone to say "clear the whole panel" as the "right way to do it", but i just simply asked if this shortcut was a valid idea

As an example, i have a 1x1cm section of paint missing on my bumper from god knows what, now to respray the whole bumper, involves a lot of time masking the area or removing the bumper, am i happy to do that, of course i am!

would i rather not if i can avoid it, yes 100%

Why....

Because as a noob, you can induce more problems than its worth doing a job sometimes! as you do things wrong,, yes its all learning, but it can really set fire in to you!

as an example i resprayed a wheel arch last year, then cleared the whole rear quarter panel, on my second coat of clear, my gun got a a small blockage on one of the holes causing it to shoot incorrectly, all caused by a bit of old clear coat in the gun some where (despite me cleaning it i obviously had missed something), anyway.... it caused me to shoot all my clear on to one small fan area, about 40 cm long, resulting in enormous runs, waited a day, sanded it..... then resprayed, then came across utherwen wave, then tried to fix that.... got worse... ,it just became difficult to fix, and it was just so bad, obviously didnt understand just how much clear can show imperfections at the time, i had no chance of getting it right, started sanding the clear off, and accidently cut the base too to the metal, then frustration set in, ended up stripping the entire panel with paint stripped in the end as there was just no way to fix it, sprayed again, cleared it, came out fine...but this took 4-5 days of messing around!

Clear is NOT forgiving sometimes, and when you do it wrong, it can go really wrong! i have still not mastered the perfect way to lay clear coat on to avoid orange peel, dam i am trying my best and i am getting dam good at it! but its still hit and miss, sometimes it lays perfect, sometimes not.

My point here is, when i found the smart repair technique i thought to my self, is this a verified solution that the guys on here will actually turn around to me and say "no its a good way to do things and i was wrong to clear whole panles from the start"

I just wanted advice, and that's why i came here, because this is the one place where the advice i have been given has always been the better, and correct advice.

Look at how ntfs answered my question, he told me how to do it, but why not to do it too, i now know the ins and outs and in future, i will never bother with fade out thinners unless the section is small, and hidden away, some where i probably wont care about

i really don't know what to say. your frustrated, but that kinda goes along with learning this profession. we ALL have been there you're not alone, you just have to keep at it and it will get easier the more you learn. one thing you should think about is the YouTube videos. I've seen a lot of them, some are very educational, some are pure BS. it's hard to sort them out if you don't know from the start what you're looking at.
Jay D.

fabio1605 wrote:[
I feel like there is something that no one seems to understand.....
]

i didnt read any further than this.

yes- we do understand.

Best practice = Clear the panel

bad practice but sometimes cant be avoided = blend the clear.
now... there is also a good practice and a bad practice tied to this "blending clear"

Good practice if you find yourself having to blend clear = sand with 1500 where you are going to blend your clear and make sure you sand enough to blend onto leaving some of the 1500 area exposed, cut and buff that edge and this will usually make the line disappear and help but not guaranteed the edge from failing.

the reason this edge fails is because it does not meet the minimum mil thickness requirement so the sun will bake it off and destroy it.

bad practice on top of a already bad practice is using fade out thinners.
applying clear on a unsanded substrate well... you already should know.

spraying a adhesion promoter on the blend area before this will help adhesion and also the edge to melt in. but even though the paint companies make it it does not mean you should use it. they make it because they know people will buy it. but they also know it is not good practice.


hope that helps

PainterDave wrote:Best practice = Clear the panel

bad practice but sometimes cant be avoided = blend the clear.
now... there is also a good practice and a bad practice tied to this "blending clear"

Good practice if you find yourself having to blend clear = sand with 1500 where you are going to blend your clear and make sure you sand enough to blend onto leaving some of the 1500 area exposed, cut and buff that edge and this will usually make the line disappear and help but not guaranteed the edge from failing.

the reason this edge fails is because it does not meet the minimum mil thickness requirement so the sun will bake it off and destroy it.

bad practice on top of a already bad practice is using fade out thinners.
applying clear on a unsanded substrate well... you already should know.

spraying a adhesion promoter on the blend area before this will help adhesion and also the edge to melt in. but even though the paint companies make it it does not mean you should use it. they make it because they know people will buy it. but they also know it is not good practice.


hope that helps

Thanks dave. You are very correct...

I have seen videos of people advising to polish a base coat after spraying and all sorts. Now I know that is wrong. But when you don't have a clue about soemthing you just have to try it for your self.

Given so many professionals here are saying. Clear the whole panel. I now fully accept out fade out thinners are naf