Pre epoxy metal prep

General Discussion. Make yourself at home...read, ask and answer!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:42 pm
I would caution you on the Acetone too. Automotive Wax and Grease remover (I prefer solvent based) will leave the surface perfectly clean.

The epoxy I use states that application over rust converter that has not been properly neutralized will void the warranty.

I know a lot of marketing makes rust converters and metal preps sound like they are all you need but do some searching on sites like this one and you find that is not the case.

Por15 is one of those products.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:20 am
Phosphoric Acid dissolves metal at a slow rate, but sharp edges such as those from 80 grit DA scratch will dissolve quickly. So I do the DA scratch after any acid treatments.



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:07 pm
Rsrguy3 wrote:Yes, similar for me, I chase the white film and the sticky residue until it's thoroughly gone.
It's been ages since I'd done this much naked steel.. Before epoxy. Anyway my issue was the adamant suggestions that I needed to go straight to epoxy after blasting, for me an issue, as some areas could not be blasted. Bottom line I'm comfortable with the concensus from you gents that old school acid when properly applied and neutralized is compatible with epoxy.
Thank you



I have used that Product its more of a Cold galvanizing system than a real rust converter.

I use these types of products on all my bare metal projects, It takes a lot of time and manpower to do a whole body of a car! You absolutely have to keep the metal wet at ALL times in any and all the stages your working the metal with it. I will usually have at least 3 guys help.
THEIR are TRICKS with how to use anything, this stuff is no exception if you want to get the stuffs full benefit.
I rework all white spots, Different metals have different hardness's, They also have different coatings on them again requiring more dwell time than others THEIR are TRICKS with how to use this stuff correctly!You shouldn't see any white powdery residue when dried! if you do? Retreat area! when its done right their is no powdery substance!
Mind you I have had to retreat parts over and over many many times only to still get the powdery stuff come back repeatedly till I picked up the phone. I was told it could simply wiped away not to worry, I dug further and was told of an alternative application method.
I Never have any residual powdery substance.


AND yes I MOST Definitely wash all my parts with SOAP and water before and after treating.I have Never had a Problem caused by soap and water when rinsed and dried properly.
Dennis Barnett
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:23 pm
Finished up with the roof last Saturday, all of the tiny rust in the pitting is gone or black neutralized. And yes it does look like cold galvanizing with the zinc left behind...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:13 pm
:goodpost: by 68 coronet, you should never let the acid dry, if it dries remove it with more acid and water. i don't like to paint over anything with the black neutralized residue in it, small pits. its just the way i fly.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:41 pm
Doright wrote:
Rsrguy3 wrote:
AND yes I MOST Definitely wash all my parts with SOAP and water before and after treating.I have Never had a Problem caused by soap and water when rinsed and dried properly.


From the manufacturers data sheet: DEOXIDINE * 624 is a phosphoric acid and solvent type metal cleaner and conditioner designed for manual application, which removes rust, destroys rusting agents and leaves the metal surface chemically clean and ready for painting.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:44 pm
Bill911 wrote:
Doright wrote:
Rsrguy3 wrote:
AND yes I MOST Definitely wash all my parts with SOAP and water before and after treating.I have Never had a Problem caused by soap and water when rinsed and dried properly.


From the manufacturers data sheet: DEOXIDINE * 624 is a phosphoric acid and solvent type metal cleaner and conditioner designed for manual application, which removes rust, destroys rusting agents and leaves the metal surface chemically clean and ready for painting.



Like I said, everyone claims their products are all you need. I followed the directions exactly has written and had serious issues.

P1010001.JPG


You can see no adhesion to the "prepped" metal.
I had to strip the entire roof and sand that "ready to paint" junk off.
That made me do some digging to see if anybody else had that problem - yep, lot's of people.

POR15 is another one that makes fantastic claims. Do some searches on automotive
sights and see what the real world ratings are. The stuff dries hard and does not flex, so as the metal gets warm and then cold a few times, the POR15 cracks, allowing moisture in
that remains unseen until serious problems result.

The best thing for bare metal IMHO is a quality Epoxy Primer. It has rust inhibitors and cures into a tough yet flexible protective layer, that will not crack. You can apply filler right over it, spray polyester or 2k build primers over it, put bedliner on it, or even shoot a few layers, block and wet sand, then shoot your color and clear.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:53 pm
'68 Coronet R/T wrote:

POR15 is another one that makes fantastic claims. Do some searches on automotive
sights and see what the real world ratings are.


I wouldn't use POF15 on a car. In fact I wouldn't use it on anything, but that's just my opinion of the stuff.



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:43 am
Bill911 wrote:
Doright wrote:
Rsrguy3 wrote:
AND yes I MOST Definitely wash all my parts with SOAP and water before and after treating.I have Never had a Problem caused by soap and water when rinsed and dried properly.


From the manufacturers data sheet: DEOXIDINE * 624 is a phosphoric acid and solvent type metal cleaner and conditioner designed for manual application, which removes rust, destroys rusting agents and leaves the metal surface chemically clean and ready for painting.



I don't know were DEOXIDINE 624 came into conversation ? I thought we were talking about PPG SX579 & SX520 ?
Please check out
https://ppgrefinish-na.uberflip.com/i/9 ... ide-2018/0?

Check out pages 34 - 36 pay particular attention to what it says on pg 35.

Their is a lot more going on with these Cold Galvanizing metal preps than just a rust converter, The real deal going on here with Dupont Axalta or the PPG product is the same too leave a coating of Zinc Phosphate on the metal which protects the metal surface and leaves it ready for paint.

At any rate If I see the white powder stuff I consider the metal as not properly treated yet and needs to be retreated and retreat as necessary till it stops returning if you need help please feel free to reach out to me for tips.

Then ya I wash with soap and water, If you don't wanna wash don't its your project.
I wash Pre and Post metal treatment for a reason.
Dennis Barnett
A&P Mechanic, FCC General radio Telephone Operator
Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:21 pm
Wow, excellent document - a big thanks.

Around here my suppliers all seem to be PPG people so I use PPG products with other PPG products - more chance of success LOL

I like the way one bit of advice leads to the next instead of having to guess or glean information from another source.

I just used Deoxidine because it's what we used on the course, but I'll use the PPG from now on.
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