urethane clear over Nason ful-base wrinkled paint

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:59 pm
Just painted a car with Nason Ful-Base and went to clear it and the paint wrinkled. Thought i was using the Ful-Thane (urethane binder) but found out (to late) that they place I get paint from mixed Ful-Base (enamel binder). They don't put labels on the can so I didn't know that they mixed ful-base... actually I was only use to using ful-thane and din't even realize that there was an enamel option. Anyway, can anyone tell me what to do from here to correct this? do I need to let it cure out for a few days and then wet sand and clear? Can I spray a couple coats of ful-than over the ful-base (as a barrier coat and then clear? What are my options?
BTW, I added Basemaker to the Ful-Base.



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:20 pm
boy... don't all jump on here at once to offer some advice.... one at a time.... glad I asked a question. cant wait to try it out again.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:59 pm
I have never used Nason wrinkled paint so I have no idea. Guessing it's the same for most of the guys on here, seeing that there are over 60 people that have viewed this post.

Have you read the TDS for your product?
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ACTS 16:31

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 10:01 pm
AutoCraft wrote:boy... don't all jump on here at once to offer some advice.... one at a time.... glad I asked a question. cant wait to try it out again.


At the risk of sounding rude, which I'm not being, this, initially seems an issue that should be taken up with the distributor who made up your paint. Assuming that you asked specifically, they made up the wrong paint. If you didn't ask specifically, then the fault lies with you. Surely you don't need to go on a forum to understand that?

What you really need to do is read the TDS for each product. Ful-thane is a 2K direct gloss urethane (referred to as "single stage" in the US). It does not need a clear coat since it is hardened and dries to a high gloss (if mixed and applied correctly). Ful-base, on the other hand is not an enamel, rather a base coat which although not specified on the TDS, would be a modified acrylic co-polymer. It is designed to be hardened and to have a clear coat applied over the top.

Neither are really designed for automotive use. These are industrial coatings. That's not to say they can't be used on a car, but there are better, more suitable products.

AutoCraft wrote:BTW, I added Basemaker to the Ful-Base.


Which basemaker, and in what quantity?

The TDS for Ful-Base says:
Ful-Base® 441-2XTM Reducers
*Do not use 441-29

Component
Ful-Base® Basecoat IF Quality Color 8
Ful-Base® 483-30TM Basecoat Activator 1/2
Ful-Base® 441-2XTM Reducers 4

While the TDS for Ful-Thane says:
Ful-Base® 441-60TM / 441-66TM / 441-68TM Reducer

You say that you "thought you were using Ful-Thane" in which case I'd think that you were following the TDS for Ful-Thane and using the 441-6X reducers.

Component
Ful-Thane® 2K Urethane Topcoat (IS Quality) 4
Ful-Base® 483-56TM Low VOC Activator 1
Ful-Base® 441-60TM / 441-66TM / 441-68TM Reducer 2

AutoCraft wrote:actually I was only use to using ful-thane

And you didn't notice any difference when you were spraying it?

The people on this forum, who answer questions anyway, are either experienced amateurs or professionals who come on here out of the goodness of their hearts to help others. Instead of being here I could be out in my workshop making $100/hour or, given it's a Sunday, relaxing and enjoying a cold but very pleasant day out with friends and/or family.

A thread like this, and yes, I was one who read it and moved on, just screams at me that someone made some very stupid mistakes and looked like the blame was being shifted to someone else. I'm really not interested in that kind of situation but then seeing the next post giving members here a hard time for not responding, in your opinion, in a timely manner, got right up my nose as unwarranted criticism.

How do you seriously expect some kind of useful response if you don't provide all the information?

Oh, and there is the matter of searching first, as well. I see you posted at 05:59 on 16/6/2022, a full 10 minutes after joining at 05:49.

Wrinkling, frying up or various other descriptions is not uncommon if a paint layer is applied too wet or the wrong reducers are used. Can't tell you how many times that's come up before, and answers been given. How long did you flash off for between coats and prior to clearing?

I, and I'm sure the other regulars on here, am not asking that people come begging. But we do appreciate a little respect. You'll get a lot more answers asking nicely than bagging your potential helpers.
Chris



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 12:04 pm
Thanks for the responce, though with some attitude, thats ok, I'm thankful to get started on some dialog. I put the info I did to just get started, sorry if it wasn't good enough for some of you... and yes i do feel real stupid and foolish for not paying closer attention and being better informed about the product. this problem has forced me to understand the product better.
...and I did search first. You assume i became a member before searching. I spent quite a bit of time searching... pretty sure this doesn't happen all that often, as I couldn't find a single discussion anywhere that covers this situation.
Also, Ful-Base not Ful-Thane is what I've always used. I got severly mixed up after talking to the paint mixing person, and me only knowing a small aspect of the Nason system didn't help.
First, I' not that familiar and obviously not well versed in all the options on Nason. my old jobber that was well informed and communicated very well and just got me what i needed. I didn't know that ful-thane was there single stage option, as I spray everything B/C. I aways ordered ful-base, mixed it with basemaker and cleared. always worked perfectly. I guess It's my falt for not being more informed about the product.
This new place seems to be equally uninformed (as I) and just learning about the products, as they used enamel binder in the ful-base I ordered. I told the individual I was working with that I needed the base, whatever it was, because at this point I was just getting more confused as to what I was getting from them. They were talking about enamel binders and urethane binders... I went back to my old cans of paint and realized that it wasn't Basecoat Fixer and not binder for the Ful-Base. So they have me al screwed up right now.
At this point I just need to know what to do to fix this issue so I don't make it worse. I have clear over wrinkled enamel. Agian, I ORDERED Ful-Base and added basemaker 2:1... turns out it was not mixed with Basecoat Fixer but enamel binder. So basically, I have nason enamel mixed with basemaker under 2 coats of urethane clear. There doesn't seem to be any adhesion issues. I've tested the problem area for adhesion issues and the paint integrity seem to bo good I just need to repair the spots that have wrinkled with out it wrinkling again. what can you all suggest?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2022 11:24 pm
Ok, moving on....

What should you do? Take it all off and do it again. It's such a mish mash of systems and products that who knows whether it will last or not.

What's the minimum you could do? If you've cleared over the wrinkles the question then is can you feel the wrinkles? If so, when you sand them flat you'll probably go through the clear which opens the possibility that it may happen all over again when you recoat. Try multiple very light coats of primer over the repair area, allowing plenty of time to flash and be really careful not to get a wet layer on there. Allow to fully cure, sand and blend base then reclear the whole panel. If you can't feel the wrinkles just scuff, blend base and clear.
Chris

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