POR15 Goof

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:57 pm
Hey all,

New to here and new to painting (well, sort of)!

I goofed years ago and used POR15 on my dirt bike frame not realizing that POR15 is UV sensitive. I sanded down the POR15 and purchased their top coat. However, the top coat is terrible to use no matter how much I thin it. So, I figured this is a good time to learn how to actually spray paint and not just use a paintbrush or roller.

Question: Has anyone run into this scenario and what did you do to paint your project? My understanding is that I need to use a primer after sanding the POR15. POR sells a self etching primer but it's in a rattle can and it's extremely expensive. I'll be hundreds in on just primer alone for all the parts I used POR15 on including the frame. Wondering if there is a better option.

I have a 3.7hp 60 gallon compressor and a primer gun (never used) and I am looking into a iwata kiwami 4 with a 1.3 tip for base and clear.

Thanks!

-Slows

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:08 pm
I would remove all the Poor15 (yes, that's what I call it).
Media blast the frame, then shoot 2 coats of a quality Epoxy Primer. Let it cure for a minimum of 24 hours, longer in cooler temperatures.

From there you can sand it smooth with 180 grit and see how things look. If decent, you can shoot another coat of epoxy primer and begin your finish sanding.

Epoxy primer needs to be coated with color and 2 to 3 coats of clear for UV protection.
1968 Coronet R/T


ACTS 16:31



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 9:31 pm
'68 Coronet R/T wrote:I would remove all the Poor15 (yes, that's what I call it).
Media blast the frame, then shoot 2 coats of a quality Epoxy Primer. Let it cure for a minimum of 24 hours, longer in cooler temperatures.

From there you can sand it smooth with 180 grit and see how things look. If decent, you can shoot another coat of epoxy primer and begin your finish sanding.

Epoxy primer needs to be coated with color and 2 to 3 coats of clear for UV protection.


Thanks for the response! Do I really need to remove all of the por15? Can I not use a self etching primer and go from there?

Thanks



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:56 am
god I hate crap15 !!! over priced garbage.
so if your referring to the red label can of the rust preventive crap it can be top coated after it dried.
you can sand it with a red scuff pad or 320 grit sand paper with red pads the color doesn't all ways = what grit they are so check to see what grit the pad really is to get a 220 to 320 grit pad.
after you scuff the frame you can seal and paint /top coat it. if you don't have any sand throughs to bare metal you can or should be able to just go right to top coat.
for top coats you will have lots of options from enamel to urethane.
if your on a tight budget enamel maybe the way to go it's not as durable as a urethane but it may hold up ok. either finish your still going to get wear through from your riding boot on things like the frame rails next to the foot pegs.
being enamel's are all the same and you can mix and match enamel hardeners from just about any brand. you could go to your home store or tractor supply get a QT of rustoleum in the gloss black to your liking. it's about 18$ for a QT. rustoleum is simply acrylic enamel at tractor supply they also sell acrylic enamel hardener ( cheap ) and buy some acetone to reduce it. you will be all in for about 60$ .
the mixing ratio is 4 parts rustoleum / 3 parts acetone / 1 part hardener.
if you want to go real crazy you can also buy a pint can of Japan dryer and add a cap full to the mixed QT . it will kick the enamel to dry a little faster.

your other option is to go with urethane this in most cases will be twice the cost depending on how's products you go with having lots of brands to pick from. if you go with a urethane stay with in the brand as with most you can't mix and match products from other brands.



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 12:02 pm
dkbautosports wrote: after you scuff the frame you can seal and paint /top coat it. if you don't have any sand throughs to bare metal you can or should be able to just go right to top coat.

your other option is to go with urethane this in most cases will be twice the cost depending on how's products you go with having lots of brands to pick from. if you go with a urethane stay with in the brand as with most you can't mix and match products from other brands.


Here is what I have done. I sanded the entire frame with 320 grit. However, there are some spots that I am not able to sand and "remove the gloss". I figured the self etching primer from POR would be good to use in these spots. However, it's expensive for one rattle can ($38 a can). I also need to do the front and rear wheel hubs which are currently gloss black from POR15 rust preventative. My original plan (coached by POR) was to use the rust preventative, sand it, and then use their top coat but I can't get it to lay correctly.

I am down to spend some money on the processes. Main reason is I get to learn something new which will open my abilities as a shop nut.

Questions
1) You say use a sealer then base then clear. Will the sealer stick to the sanded POR15? What about the spots I can't reach?
2) Is there a self etching primer that I can just spray the whole frame with instead of the rattle can?
3) Sticking with the same brand, do you mean with all paint (primer, sealer, base, and clear)?

Paint job is going to be Gloss black with Desert Tan. Frame will be all black but the other parts will get the tan added as desired.

Thanks for the tips!



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 4:51 pm
I wouldn't do the etch primer your not dealing with lots of bare metal to need to etch.
places you can't sand there is no magic product to put on that if it's not sanded than nothing will stick for long term.
sealer there are lots on the market.
look up transfer kwik sealer and Kwik sealer hardener. or u-pol up2274 and u-pol hardener up2392 for the u-pol you will need some urethane reducer. the u-pol can be mixed a few different ways as a high build primer , a primer surfacer and as a sealer. just depends on the amount of reducer.
is there a reason you want to do base clear?
for what your looking to paint there is no real benefit to doing a base clear.
you will be spending more money on more materials and more time spraying.
paint is not a penis more isn't better. the more material you put on the frame the easier it will chip and the more chance spraying more coats of products the more something could go wrong.
when it comes to using a spray can product most do not have a hardener so top coats can at times attack the none hardened spray can product. at times when it attacks it it will look like you used paint stripper.
the reason I recommend the single stage enamel is it's pretty user friendly it's low cost it's forgiving to go over many other products and it will hold up pretty well.

when I say sticking with the same brand yes it's best with a urethane to use all the products in the brands product line. so that would be using the brands primer sealer with there hardener and reducer. the same brand as the seal but there base coat and base coat reducer and the same brand for the clear clear hardener and clears reducer.



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2022 7:15 pm
lowlyslows wrote:[

However, there are some spots that I am not able to sand and "remove the gloss".


got some pics of these areas?



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2022 10:30 am
tomsteve wrote:
lowlyslows wrote:[

However, there are some spots that I am not able to sand and "remove the gloss".


got some pics of these areas?


See attached. Mostly around factory welds. All the sanding I have done has been by hand. There are some harder spots to get to like in the other photo of the hub. That’s why I was asking about self etching primer.

Thanks!
Attachments
CB01E055-F445-41AF-9F27-CEBCE952E2BE.jpeg
647DB4D7-1A51-4D85-9E2E-7364DDAF9153.jpeg



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 6:55 am
like I said if it's not sanded then nothing you spray on it will stick for the long term.
if you have a few none sanded areas between the welds it shouldn't be a big problem sand it the best you can with a red pad it should be fine.
when it comes to the hubs if it was me I would drive out the bearings and stick it in the blasting cabinet using a fine grit sand blast it back down to bare metal.
if your stuck having to sand it by hand get creative and use some spray adhesive and glue sandpaper on things like ice pop sticks to get into the crevices. you could also use a dremel tool with some tapered rolls / rolled sanding discs / scuff pad rolls.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:54 am
'68 Coronet R/T wrote:I would remove all the Poor15 (yes, that's what I call it).
Media blast the frame, then shoot 2 coats of a quality Epoxy Primer. Let it cure for a minimum of 24 hours, longer in cooler temperatures.

From there you can sand it smooth with 180 grit and see how things look. If decent, you can shoot another coat of epoxy primer and begin your finish sanding.

Epoxy primer needs to be coated with color and 2 to 3 coats of clear for UV protection.


:goodpost:
This what I would do!

DO NOT PUT ETCH anything on anything other than Bare metal and also stay away from Rattle can ANYTHING!

Also some of those welds in your pics look like Dog poop I would grind them down and lay some nice welds over the top of them then dress them then out then Paint with Epoxy IF you go this rout Media blast first as you do not want any sort of paint dirt grease or anything else in your welds.
Dennis B.
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Line Maintenance A&P Mechanic and MOC Tech specialist.
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