Please look at this contamination that immediately appears when i spray my first coat of base in areas. Note the round spots and the horizontal streaks sideways (the crosshatching is my sanding). Not everywhere, but quite a few areas. I'm spraying shopline JBP over shopline jp202 primer. after sanding the primer down to 600 i washed the car twice with dish soap, moved it in the shop and wax and greased twice, a day apart, using a spray bottle and rags. Let it sit about an hour before tacking. Tacked with an aired out tack rag, gerson brand. Sprayed some base and got similar to the photo.

Talked to paint store and they thought maybe my laundry detergent might have something to do with it as I w&G with used, laundered microfiber clothes. So yesterday, with the lint free towels in the second photo admittedly from wally world, i cleaned the whole car with ammonia free glass cleaner, then w&g, then 70% isopropyl alcohol, using tons of towels as they saturate fast. Let sit overnight and i get the same thing today - photo shown is from today.

I have a large water trap, then a water/oil separator glass bowl type, then a desiccant trap, at 30 feet from compressor, plus an inline disposable filter at the gun. For those that have helped me in the past, yes this is the same car i had bubbling issues on the epoxy sealer, so is it something i'm grossely doing wrong/bad equipmet? I've painted three and two half cars in the past without these issues, although back in the day i didnt use W&G. I spray this on then wipe off seconds later. as good as they show in videos.

is this a complete ?

you should be using a sealer over 600 grit

what w&g you using ?

i usually grey scotchbrite with glass cleaner, wipe dry, the UPOL w&g with micro fiber,

what micro fiber you using ? cheap ones could be the dye giving you trouble

take a mirror from your house or go buy a small one, use your blow gun on the mirror real close see if your air is clean

Agree mostly with what Dave says, above.

To me it looks like a combination of poor quality materials and bad technique.

I don't like using microfibre for W&G remover. I find that it doesn't pick up enough of the liquid. Instead, I use cotton flannelette, well washed, not new. Paper based cloths usually just smear the cleaner around on the panel - just like what you see on yours.

Washing your cloths is an art form. Use hot water and a detergent that does NOT contain any grit. Usually the creamy looking ones are no good and the ones that look like blue tinted water are better. The best I've found is the cheapest supermarket generic house brand. If your missus uses fabric softener in the machine buy another machine for your cloths. Yes, I'm serious - the slightest contamination will ruin your result. Dry in the drier if it hasn't had any additive or naturally on the clothes line if it's a fine sunny day with little wind (which will put dust back in your cloths).

Cheap W&G remover is never a good buy, especially the stuff sold by hardware stores. Get the best quality stuff sold by the big paint manufacturers. I like PPG Prepsol.

P600 is too coarse, especially if you're using a cheap and thin base coat. Only good for premium base coats which have very high solids contents and even then, only solid colours. P800 wet is my preference and make sure that the sanding is even and previous sanding scratches are fully sanded out. If you can see sanding scratches in different directions, as in your picture, then you haven't done the job properly.

You need to go through the cleaning regime immediately before painting, not the night before. Dust will settle on your job, no matter how clean your booth is. I've pointed out the dust spots, and other problems, in the picture below.

this is my regiment AND i know you won't probably like it BUT i NEVER HAVE this sort of problems. when i'm ready to start my color procedure, i take a clean rag and my air hose and rub and blow the surface clean. then with my ONE SHOT sprayer filled with good quality W/G remover i spray a panel and wipe it dry with good quality PAPER TOWELS, i know most don't like this. i will do this sometimes at least 2 times then use the air hose agian then i tack rag right before i spray the color. i will add that my surface is usually real clean before i do this, i usually do my final sanding wet and wash with soap and water when done. when i rinse i shoot the hose everywhere, under the fenders under the chassis and any little joints in can get. i have almost forgot what fisheyes or contamination look like, i Never have that problem.
Jay D.

I follow a very similar regiment.
Using blue shop towels I buy from Costco.

The key to Wax and Grease remover is to use a good quality one and put some in a spray botte. Spray the panel and then before it dries wipe it off with the towels. Repeat until the paper towel comes up clean.

I use the air hose to go over the entire car making sure any bits of paper towel are gone.

NFT5 wrote:I don't like using microfibre for W&G remover. I find that it doesn't pick up enough of the liquid. Instead, I use cotton flannelette, well washed, not new.

Up to now I have been using a high quality thick paper towel. I have a box of my old cotton diapers (nappies) from 1966.........I wonder if I should give them a go, LOL.

A t the risk of hijacking this thread......you mention that 800 grit is better for the base, the paint I use calls for 500 wet on the TDS --I usually go with 600 I have (my supplier normally does not have 500) and it seems to work--should I go straight to 800 for a better finish? I'm only doing bike parts so maybe the difference is negatable on my small parts??

what i do is i usually finish my blocking with 180 then i'll shoot some slightly reduced HI build. reduced so it goes on somewhat smooth. i try and do this late in the day so it dry's overnight. then guide coat and sand with 500, this is my major sanding operation. i get everywhere then use a scotch brite where i can't get with the paper. then its 600, about the same procedure but I'm not to concerned about seams and tight places. this is ready for solid colors. and some metalics. if its going to have certain metalics over it, fine golds and silvers to name a few. i will go over my work with 800 just mostly hitting everything i can get with the paper. it sounds like a lot of sanding work, but its how i do it and i'm sticking to it.
Jay D.

Rebel Racing wrote:you mention that 800 grit is better for the base, the paint I use calls for 500 wet on the TDS --I usually go with 600 I have (my supplier normally does not have 500) and it seems to work--should I go straight to 800 for a better finish?

My sanding is very similar to Jay's. I'll go P600 for solids but P800 for metallics. Look closely at that TDS - I'll hazard a guess that they say P500, but by machine, not by hand. I've been saying it for years, but don't believe me, try a test of your own. Sand a panel in different grits, say P500 dry on a DA, P500 wet by hand, P600 wet by hand and P800 wet, by hand. Paint it with 2 coats of a fine metallic gold or silver, then clear. Tell me you can't tell the difference.

The big difference between what I, and Jay, do, is not so much in the sanding, but we use premium paints. Many, not so much the older members, but the newer members, use cheap paint because they think that it will save them money. But then they have to put on 3-4 coats, sometimes with multiple reworks to get correct colour, where I can get full coverage with 1.5 to 2 coats. So I'm getting as good, if not a better result, with half the paint. Not only that but the paint has a much higher solids content so it fills any scratches better and will perform better because the total Dry Film Thickness is lower. Good results come from not just good practices but good products as well. I've noticed you asking questions about different products as you try to chase the $ vs performance result, but believe me, you'll do much better with a premium range of products. A top shelf base will save you both time and money, as will a quality clear. As you become more familiar with the products you'll fine tune your application and become able to achieve the result you want.

With the clear I use (Cromax 696S) I can use it as an MS clear with 3:1 or 4:1 mixes or I can go to 2:1 for what is effectively an HS clear. Change hardener for a factory style peel or use a different one for a glass finish. I almost never use more than 2 coats and you have to intentionally flood it to get a run. So, it's expensive but already I'm using 30% less product than most on here with their 3 coats and its gloss off the gun means I rarely have to cut and buff. How much time do you spend on the job, after you've painted? I probably have the next one nearly out the door.

It's an interesting exercise, but a long time ago I asked my paint distributor what products the shops that do high end work use. Every single one of them used a premium product, which, from Axalta, means Cromax 6000 or Standox, maybe Spies Hecker. Standox prices will make your eyes water but these shops are right when they say that the quality saves them money. When your paint bill is $60K per month you don't want to make the wrong choice on paint.

Ok, so I digressed......a little. But the same thinking is what I responded to OP about using the right type of cloths, not the cheap paper rubbish and quality W&G remover.

as usual!!!
Jay D.

thank you all for the informative and detailed replies! i'm going to have another go with some of your suggestions. i just feel like i'm doing everything. sure, i W&G the night before only on that last go and only because someone told me i was not waiting long enough, but i tacked right before spraying. i used the house brand W&G from Tasco, so not an expensive one but all the shops around here use it. So i've bought some axalta VS1000 W&G and Sontara E-4143 rags. Interestingly the axalta spec sheet says use the soaked rag method, dont spray on.

also read cautions about tack rags so now i'm scared to tack. also about letting your water air dry when washing. our water has a lot of salts - the plants hate it - so i may blow the car off when i wash it. watched more videos on W&G technique and a lot do more wiping then i do. i was spraying a smallish area and wiping dry in one direction. they wipe back and forth like the are scrubbing, then dry it with clean rag.