Paint part of door?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:01 pm
I have some damages on the lower part of the front door.
If you see this Ibiza, the damages are under the "pleat"(?). https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... G_3967.jpg

I have been around to some car painting workshops and most of them would like to put color where the damage is (under the pleat) but put clear coat on the whole door.

Some of them said they could try to just to paint and clear coat on the lower part but they couldn´t promise it would last. And another one said it works fine to just paint and clear coat on the lower part of the door.

Question is - what should I do? Should I let them do only under the pleat (a bit cheaper) or is it better to put clear coat on the whole door? Is there a risk for color shift with an extra clear coat layer?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 6:31 pm
howdiyou wrote:most of them would like to put color where the damage is (under the pleat) but put clear coat on the whole door.


This is the correct way to do it.

howdiyou wrote:And another one said it works fine to just paint and clear coat on the lower part of the door.


It can be done, but depends on the skill of the painter to make it essentially invisible.

howdiyou wrote:there a risk for color shift with an extra clear coat layer?


Yes, if they put too much clear on or use the wrong clear the panel will appear slightly darker than the adjacent panel.

Recommendation: Clear the whole door.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 1:15 am
howdiyou wrote:And another one said it works fine to just paint and clear coat on the lower part of the door.

NFT5 wrote:
It can be done, but depends on the skill of the painter to make it essentially invisible.


Question: why is that? They both take color on the same area(?). And the clear coat is...clear.....

Does this way of doing it last as long as the correct way? Some said there were risk of crackle. Or is it just the look that differs? If you do a "spot repair" - do you clear a bigger are than you paint?

howdiyou wrote:there a risk for color shift with an extra clear coat layer?


NFT5 wrote:Yes, if they put too much clear on or use the wrong clear the panel will appear slightly darker than the adjacent panel.


Question:But I dont really need to be worried? If you compare to if I repaint the whole door the extra coat layer cant make huge differences (as if i repaint the whole door)?
NFT5 wrote:Recommendation: Clear the whole door.

Thanks for your advice!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:09 am
howdiyou wrote:Question: why is that? They both take color on the same area(?). And the clear coat is...clear.....


Yes, and no. If you're confining the repair to the section on the lower part of the door, below that body line, then you have a lot less room to work with to blend the base coat, given that you can't extend the base any closer than about 50mm from the line, and even then the colour must be blended out, leaving the last 50mm for clear only. You can't mask it so the painter must have excellent gun control.

If you're clearing the whole door then you'd probably cover most of the bottom section with base, making any colour difference look like just a trick of the light on the different angle. depending where the damage is you might even extend the blen up higher where you have a lot more space to blend it in.

Even clear that is "water clear" darkens the surface, just a bit, when additional coats are applied. Some clears are a little yellow and these can change the colour considerably.

howdiyou wrote:Does this way of doing it last as long as the correct way? Some said there were risk of crackle. Or is it just the look that differs? If you do a "spot repair" - do you clear a bigger are than you paint?


Even in the best shops clear coat joins are done on body lines. That way the paint above the line is original and most people won't pick that a repair has been done in the lower section. However, it does take some experience in knowing how to fly mask and paint up to that masked line.

A repair done this way will last indefinitely because the clear is not blended out like is often done on cant rails, where the edge peels up after a period.

howdiyou wrote:But I dont really need to be worried?


No, not really. Give the job to a shop that has a good reputation for doing quality work and will give you a warranty on what they do. I routinely give a lifetime warranty on work that I do and I've had just one warranty claim in over 20 years. If the job is done properly then it will last.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 12:37 pm
Very thankful for your replies!

Some last thinkings, if I have understood right:

Just base and clear coat to the lower part:
NPT5
Even in the best shops clear coat joins are done on body lines. That way the paint above the line is original and most people won't pick that a repair has been done in the lower section. However, it does take some experience in knowing how to fly mask and paint up to that masked line.

A repair done this way will last indefinitely because the clear is not blended out like is often done on cant rails, where the edge peels up after a period.


This is why I thought it was the best method - the rest of the door remains original and absolutely no shifting will appear. Also there is a pleat on the door that should hide the color border. No nned to worry!

Why I then reconsidered (and started a thread here...) was that someone told me that it might crackle after a year. You are telling me the same thing - if it´s not done correctly.

In the last sentence above you write about that the edge might peel up on cant rails (because the clear is blended out(?)).
What´s the difference from where it lasts indefintely? Blended out with base, or blended out with what?

How does the painter do if he makes cant rails and blend it out vs. not?

I don´t get it..... And how do I (as a customer) know if it will peel up or last indefinitely? Or is it just wait and see...? If there is two methods of doing it and one lasts forever - why don´t everyone choose that method?

Can you explain the difference so a child understands...? :bighug:

Regardless of the above I think I will follow your recommendation of clear the whole door.
(It´s just that I would hate myself if I get back a car with big colorshifting.....)

I guess this presume the rest of the door has no scratches because after the door has been coated these can´t be fixed. Does the painter usually do any polishing on the part that only will have clear coat before clear coating or is it me that should polish before leaving the car?



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:53 pm
you got some very good info from Chris. i'll let him answer your previous questions. but i will add that recoating the complete door shouldn't cause any color shift. but what might happen is matching the texture of the clear, if he is a good paint person, he should get it right. you should have the scratches on the lower part of the valance fixed. thats a fairly simple job, especially while he's doing the door.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:00 pm
badsix wrote:you got some very good info from Chris. i'll let him answer your previous questions. but i will add that recoating the complete door shouldn't cause any color shift. but what might happen is matching the texture of the clear, if he is a good paint person, he should get it right. you should have the scratches on the lower part of the valance fixed. thats a fairly simple job, especially while he's doing the door.
Jay D.


Matchning the texture...that is why I am a little worried about having any kind of color/clear coat on the whole door. The reason I want to repaint the lower part is mostly because of heavy stone chips. Its a shame if the clear coat on the whole door makes it look strange.

That is why I thought the best thing was to just paint and clear on the lower part - as long as it lasts-:) Now I am in doubt-:

The stone chips are maybe 20-30 mm below the pleat. Maybe it is too narrow.

Now I am in doubt-:)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:45 pm
Trying to blend clear on part of the door takes a true professional and even then, how long it lasts is questionable.

I had a dealer scratch the front bumper on my car. They admitted doing it but told me they had already repaired it.

When I inspected it, I could not even tell where they had scratched it. However, a year later you could see where the edges of the clear were blended as they were turning white and peeling. This is why it is best to blend the color and clear the entire panel.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:40 pm
howdiyou wrote:Can you explain the difference so a child understands...? :bighug:


I've done a few posts here on a technique called fly masking. Have a look at at this thread for more detailed explanation and pictures.

When clear is formulated it is made to do two specific things. Firstly to give a nice shiny finish and secondly to protect the base coat underneath. It can only do this protection task if it is a certain minimum thickness, usually 50-60µ. Using the older acrylic or lacquer technology you could just finish clear anywhere on a panel and melt it in to the paint underneath. But, for modern, hardened urethane clears this isn't possible. So, if you were to end a clear coat partway across a panel the edge would gradually get thinner and this lack of depth will cause it to fail. There are special solvents that help to melt the edge in but they really only work on narrow panels or sections like bumper bars and cant rails, and ven then the edge can become visible later. This is why the usual recommendation is to clear the whole panel. The alternative is to have a hard edge, but this would be visible as a step in the paint - not desirable at all.

Fly masking is a technique that uses a sharp change in the panel shape, like on a body line, to hide a hard edge that is slightly softened. See the drawing in my link above. It is a p[aint company approved method and, done properly, is both invisible and long lasting.

howdiyou wrote:Does the painter usually do any polishing on the part that only will have clear coat before clear coating or is it me that should polish before leaving the car?


Yes, the rest of the door is prepped by buffing first and then sanding or scuffing. You should not do this because the products you use may contain silicone which will stop the new paint from adhering to the panel. The painter will hate you. The products he uses are silicone free.

howdiyou wrote:Question: why is that? They both take color on the same area(?). And the clear coat is...clear.....

Does this way of doing it last as long as the correct way? Some said there were risk of crackle. Or is it just the look that differs? If you do a "spot repair" - do you clear a bigger are than you paint?


Yes, clear is always extended beyond the base coat in a repair. That way the base can be blended so that no colour change is visible.

howdiyou wrote:The stone chips are maybe 20-30 mm below the pleat. Maybe it is too narrow.


This isn't enough space to repair and blend. The painter will have to extend the base coat above the body line and clear the whole door.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:26 pm
Thanks again!

One of the painters told me that no base and no clear would be applicated above the pleat. He said something about a tape and it would be a little edge, almost not visible. I guess his plan is to do a sharp edge (as u describe above, maybe u can call it some kind of fly masking?) and maybe using this tape?:

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b400671 ... bjqW260NXS

If I understand u right this solution will last as long as if he had cleared the whole door? The only disadvantage is that there will be an visible edge. But on the other hand there will be no risk for color shifting/mistakes on the door above the pleat.

Correct? And thanks to the pleat maybe the edge will be more invisible than if the door was plain, I guess.

Then this would be an good alternative? But maybe the edge will be more noticeable than he said..... and then I am back to clear the whole door (and a bit afraid that there will be a noticeable colorshifting on the whole door instead of this little edge that I guess u wont notice if you arent close).

But maybe there can not be so much shifting if there is only clear (and not base) that I will notice.....
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