First Time With Cromax Clear

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:22 pm
Hi Guys,

First time using CROMAX® LE LE5100S MULTI-PANEL CLEARCOAT (sorry for the caps--pasted that way). I shot some bike parts with the Mazda 46V Soul Red and the Cromax was the midcoat. The base was a Montana brand--my supplier could not get Matrix brand that I have used before with this color.

Base went on perfect. The midcoat was very thin especially with the activator. Well....either I was too close or too slow but, I got massive runs. Came back the next day and sanded them out and shot the midcoat again. This time I really dialed back the flow and made sure that on my paper hanging on the wall I could pull the trigger for a good second with no running. I literally put on 3 super light dusting coats (flashing between of course) before I could get it on heavier. This time it came out perfect. The end result is great but am confused as the TDS said to apply 2 med wet coats.

In the end I got the finish I wanted so I guess that is the goal but maybe the gun set up and or technique at first was my problem. Just curious if anyone else has experienced this.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:39 pm
Done heaps of Mazda 46V. It doesn't use or need a midcoat.

It's just a fairly standard MS clear, mixes 2:1. Did you mix by volume or by weight? You know the weights on the TDS are cumulative, not individual?

They don't sell that one here but there are others in the CC6xxx series that are very similar, just not quite as low on the emissions. Just slow enough on the initial flash so you can use it on multiple panels but then quickish air dry so dust free after only about 40 minutes.

A lot of the Cromax products are moving towards high productivity with the aim of reducing time on the job and, especially time in the booth for high throughput repair situations. The clears are not quite like the old 696S which wouldn't run, even if you tried. The new ones are intended for 1.5 coat application, not the 3-4 heavy coats that most on this forum believe in.

Application methods are slightly different. Have a look at this video.
Chris



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:12 am
NFT5 wrote:Done heaps of Mazda 46V. It doesn't use or need a midcoat.

It's just a fairly standard MS clear, mixes 2:1. Did you mix by volume or by weight? You know the weights on the TDS are cumulative, not individual?

They don't sell that one here but there are others in the CC6xxx series that are very similar, just not quite as low on the emissions. Just slow enough on the initial flash so you can use it on multiple panels but then quickish air dry so dust free after only about 40 minutes.

A lot of the Cromax products are moving towards high productivity with the aim of reducing time on the job and, especially time in the booth for high throughput repair situations. The clears are not quite like the old 696S which wouldn't run, even if you tried. The new ones are intended for 1.5 coat application, not the 3-4 heavy coats that most on this forum believe in.

Application methods are slightly different. Have a look at this video.
Thanks Chris!! I will look at the video. I was mixing by volume. The first layer of base was a 1:1 mix and then the mid coat (they called it a tinted clear) was a 2:1, the 1 being an activator. Each part of that was water thin. My first experience with 46v was in the Matrix line and each base color was the same consistency as any other base I ever used.

Not complaining as I made it work but for me, the Matrix line was a lot easier to work with. At any rate, I made it work and the owner is happy, in fact within hours he had it entered into a show--said he has gotten some nice comments.
Rickman Show.jpg
The reflection to the lower right of the decal is our Christmas tree, not a paint defect, LOL.
Rickman Tank.jpg

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:54 am
Rebel Racing wrote: Each part of that was water thin


This does bother me a little. You did stir/shake/mix the clear completely?

The next thing is your photo. I know that light can play tricks but that looks very pink/orange to me. Pink like 41V basecoat, or orange with the orange aluminium that's in 46V, both before the tinted clear. Like you didn't put any, or enough tinter in the clear. That tinter, a special one, has to be weighed in after you mix the clear and activator. It's this layer that then gives you the candy effect.

If you got runs in the tinted clear they would be almost impossible to just sand out without leaving darker streaks.

This, even in full sunlight, is 46V
20210926_131912_HDR.jpg


See the colour difference?

Here's a very serious suggestion. You seem to be progressing well in your work, but needing to ask questions on what seems to be almost every job that you do. Nothing wrong with asking questions and I'm happy to answer when I can but most of your questions seem to relate to product and application and, it seems to me anyway, every time you're using a different product.

So, find yourself a local distributor who sells a well known, top tier brand - Axalta, PPG, or similar. Go and talk to them about what they can do as your primary supplier. Sure, you're not going to be their biggest customer but we all started at the bottom and it didn't take too many years before the $200 a month I started spending became $2000 a month. You're not big enough to warrant a full paint system but if the distributor is nearby then you can get them to do your mix and match while you learn. Who knows, when they get sick of doing it for you they'll suddenly "find" a secondhand system at a price you can't resist. :wink:

More importantly though is that they become your source of technical information, well, them and the TDS that you print out for every product you use. A phone call is much quicker than a question on an internet forum and better than having to wait for some crotchety old bugger from Australia to answer your question....with another question. :happy:

More importantly, they can set you up with a couple of different clears, say a production type clear and a restoration type clear. With just a few products you'll become much more familiar with each one and know how to use to get the effect that you want. You can also keep your inventory cost down - having things like common hardeners and reducers, plus, of course, the speciality products like plastic primers, retarders and accelerators and ancillaries.
Chris

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 6:12 am
HaHa. I found your runs! :rotfl:

And I was right. There is no tinter in that tinted clear.

Screenshot_20230106_220939.jpg
Screenshot_20230106_220939.jpg (7.46 KiB) Viewed 6012 times
Chris



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:06 am
NFT5 wrote:
Rebel Racing wrote: Each part of that was water thin


This does bother me a little. You did stir/shake/mix the clear completely?

The next thing is your photo. I know that light can play tricks but that looks very pink/orange to me. Pink like 41V basecoat, or orange with the orange aluminium that's in 46V, both before the tinted clear. Like you didn't put any, or enough tinter in the clear. That tinter, a special one, has to be weighed in after you mix the clear and activator. It's this layer that then gives you the candy effect.

If you got runs in the tinted clear they would be almost impossible to just sand out without leaving darker streaks.

This, even in full sunlight, is 46V
20210926_131912_HDR.jpg


See the colour difference?

Here's a very serious suggestion. You seem to be progressing well in your work, but needing to ask questions on what seems to be almost every job that you do. Nothing wrong with asking questions and I'm happy to answer when I can but most of your questions seem to relate to product and application and, it seems to me anyway, every time you're using a different product.



More importantly though is that they become your source of technical information, well, them and the TDS that you print out for every product you use. A phone call is much quicker than a question on an internet forum and better than having to wait for some crotchety old bugger from Australia to answer your question....with another question. :happy:

Thanks for all the advice and questions....I'll try to answer them in order.

Yes, I did shake and stir very well. My supplier mixed the clear and tint in 1 can and gave me another can of activator to mix in myself at home. So, it was not weighed with the activator. TDS said once mixed it was only good for 1 hour of pot life.

I think the lighting is making it look much lighter than the pics show but to be honest, it was not as dark as the Matrix line that I used before--not a huge difference but still noticeable. Owner was happy so I guess that is what counted this time.

The runs I got initially were sanded out but I did end up going through the base so I had to re base it and initially start from scratch. Yes, you are correct, only sanding the runs left dark streaks so, I did need to re base.

Most of the time I have a question I am right back to my supplier--I go by his shop every day to work. If I asked you guys every time I would get banned for being a pest, LOL. Not really but, I am not afraid to ask if I am not sure and my supplier is the fastest way to get the info if I can't glean it from the TDS.

I am very grateful to get the info/opinion from a pro like yourself, I am sure that you have better things to do with your time than answer (seemingly) dumb question from a rank amature.

Lastly I don't think you are a "crotchety old bugger" you seem like a good guy taking time out of your day to help out when you can.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:12 am
NFT5 wrote:HaHa. I found your runs! :rotfl:

And I was right. There is no tinter in that tinted clear.

Screenshot_20230106_220939.jpg
Well, you caught me....sort of. That would be a run in regular clear, I shot 3 coats of after the tinted clear. This was suggested to me by the supplier. In the rush to get it ready for the owner, somehow we missed it. We applied those raised decals and literally an hour later it was picked up--cut it right down to the wire. I specifically asked the supplier if it needed regular clear as a last layer and he said yes. After the show the owner is going to bring it back to me for a cut and buff so I will take those runs out. Thanks for pointing that out--all 3 of us missed that.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:59 am
NICE JOB!!! :clap:
Jay D.
they say my name is Jay



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 3:13 pm
badsix wrote:NICE JOB!!! :clap:
Jay D.
Thanks Jay. After the minor set back it was fun. I really like doing these tri coats.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:45 pm
Rebel Racing wrote: My supplier mixed the clear and tint in 1 can and gave me another can of activator to mix in myself at home.


My guess then is that he mixed the tinter based on the weight of the clear only, no activator. So you would have ended up with only 2/3 the amount of tinter that you should have had. That would explain the colour difference.

With these "factory candies" you definitely don't need extra coats of clear on top. Especially when doing repairs because that will result in your repair looking much better/smoother than the rest of the car. If doing a 'complete' (whether car or bike or whatever) then you can put the extra clear on top if you feel that its necessary to wetsand and buff but it should go on as a flowcoat, after the initial tinted clear has cured and been denibbed.

Rebel Racing wrote:Lastly I don't think you are a "crotchety old bugger"


Thanks for the vote of confidence. I might need it the next time my comments are deemed dickish and a member leaves in search of the answer he wants, rather than the answer he needs. Like most people I'm happy to help someone who's prepared to have a go.
Chris
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